Since this is now in IMHO, I guess I can respond to pkbites’ post above.
Pkbites’ comments illustrate a big part of the problem, IMHO. For whatever reason, the police have decided that they don’t need or want to enforce the laws on the books regarding loud motorcycles.
If his comments are representative, they evidently have no such problem enforcing the law regarding loud car audio systems, though (especially if it is vulgar rap music being played by “thugs”). I guess it doesn’t matter if they’re just minding their own business or not. :rolleyes:
I really don’t think the police should be doing such selective enforcement. I think they should be handing out tickets to both groups.
And the next time you’re pulled over for [ANYTHING] will you demand a citation be issued to you or will you prefer “selective enforcement” and want a verbal/written warning? Giving a little over the speed limit is also “selective enforcement”. Folks traveling 1 MPH over the limit are rarely (at least around here) pulled over. Would you prefer that change? Answer truthfully.
And, you are aware, of course, that folks riding bikes with after-market pipes are rarely stupid enough to snort such bikes beyond legal sound limits, in the presence of a squad car giving RS for a stop, correct?
You are conflating two different aspects of “selective enforcement.” I’m not talking about selective enforcement on the basis of the degree of violation. Clearly there is a difference between someone going 1 mph over the speed limit and someone going 30 mph over the speed limit.
I’m talking about not ticketing a loud motorcycle rider because you (i.e. the police) don’t find that annoying, but do go ahead and ticket the driver of an equally loud (or even less loud) car audio system because you believe that the rap music being played is far more annoying.
Why do the police get to decide what is annoying or not? After all, noise ordinances do not distinguish between the types of illegal noise being produced. Instead, the ordinances base the violation on the decibel level, which loud motorcycles routinely exceed. Note too that because the decibel scale is logarithmic, an exceedance of just a few decibels equates to a much louder noise.
So far as I can see, motorcycles with loud pipes are pretty much loud the entire time that the engine is running. They just get even louder when they rev their throttles.
It is completely obvious to me when a motorcycle goes by with a illegally modified exhaust. It must be obvious to the police as well. They’re just willfully ignoring the issue, IMHO.
Anecdotally speaking, I drove the back roads of Connecticut just yesterday to go up to UConn. The Harleys with modified exhausts were all blatantly obvious. Then there was the one cruiser we drove behind for a few miles. It was markedly quieter, and completely silent when idling at a light. His engine was so quiet, I actually thought he had shut his engine off at the light, but he started up immediately when the light turned green. (Interestingly enough, that was the one rider I noticed who was also wearing a helmet and a reflective vest.)
I’ve never understood removing the sound baffles on a bike. I routinely go to a biker bar that sees 500-1000 bikes on a nice day. There are varying degrees of mods made and I would say the majority of them stay away from the noisiest mods.
Those who insist on the noisiest bike are also the ones who make a point of revving them up. There are plenty of people who will give the throttle a little blip but the ones with the loudest pipes insist on revving the engines up for extended amounts of time.
I really don’t get why anyone would do this next to a music stand while the band is playing but there you go. There’s always 2 or 3 out of 1000 who insist on it. I think the number speaks for itself without adding a lot of comment.
And what is your opinion on giving overages on speed limit enforcement? Around here it’s 13 everywhere except the freeway where it’s 15 over except in the 70 zone where it’s 10 over. And every single patrol cop enforces them that way.
Unless you post that everyone going 1 over should be pulled over then you do in fact support selective enforcement.
A dick snorting his hog at 3 am in a residential neighborhood is going to get cited. A jerk tooling up and down main drag in the afternoon causing a racket is going to get stopped. A fellow riding down the highway in a safe manner probably isn’t going to get pulled over here just because he has some Screaming Eagles on his pipes. Everything in it’s place at it’s proper time.
A modified Harley just idling at a stop & go light isn’t that loud unless the rider cranks the throttle.
most of the time it just requires a re-jetting of the carbs. hot cams are of course a bigger challenge, but then again they are on pretty much any engine. the loss of manifold vacuum is killer on throttle response. modern fuel-injected bikes still may need a PCM re-map if you fiddle with the airflow more than a little bit.
I’ll go on record as saying I do like the sound of a modded V-twin, but I’m mindful of my effect on others and haven’t/won’t do anything drastic on my Dyna. I’d only go as far as the “screaming eagle” upgrade muffler Harley offers for it, which gives it a little extra snort but is still 50-state legal. The people who run straight pipes (just what it sounds like, no muffler at all. just a straight length of pipe from the engine to the back) are obnoxious.
it’s like when I had my Mustang GT, I put Flowmaster mufflers on it because I also like the sound of a V8. But I went for the “moderate” ones and just did an axle-back. When I read Mustang forums, I cringe any time I see some kid brag about his “muffler deletes” and catless X-pipe. That’s just obnoxiously loud and nothing more than peacocking.
Aftermarket loud exhausts can be as cheap as the pipe and the tube bending.
If someone before you replaced the exhaust, you’re unlikely to change it back to stock.
I don’t like the (audible from 2.5 miles at full throttle) D&D exhaust on my Honda CBR1000RR, but the previous owner put it on and I’m not going to spend $1000+ on a Honda exhaust when I can spend $5 on some shooters’ earplugs.
You seem to be under the impression that you have made some kind of profound point here regarding “selective enforcement,” but are ignoring the fact that the term can be used to describe a wide variety of practices, some morally and/or legally acceptable, and some that are positively repugnant.
Selective enforcement on the basis of the degree of violation is absolutely appropriate. It is not practical or desirable for the police to be ticketing every driver who is going 1 mph over the speed limit (which is the example you keep using). Following this practice is accepted, so long as the police are treating everyone equally, and not singling anybody out.
There is another kind of selective enforcement as well, though, and that is the practice of only or preferentially giving tickets to certain groups of people, such as minorities. The people and the courts have deemed such “selective enforcement” to be unacceptable.
In my opinion, the practice of ticketing a “thug blaring the bass of vulgar rap music out of an 87 Olds” while willfully ignoring equally loud motorcycles because you think “that’s a beautiful sound” is lot closer to the unacceptable type of selective enforcement than the acceptable type. It’s the police making a conscious decision that some people can violate that law, but others cannot. It is the antithesis of treating people fairly and equally under the law.
That’s great to hear that there are at least some cases in which you would ticket a loud motorcycle.
However, the “fellow riding down the highway” with his “Screaming Eagles on his pipes” is still breaking the law! And just because you think that the highway is the proper place and time for loud pipes doesn’t make it so.
I can guarantee that if I removed the muffler from my car, I would get a ticket in short order regardless of where or when I was driving.
Which they do as soon as the light turns green. Unless it is possible to accelerate while still idling? :rolleyes:
You would install a muffler in short order if the police would do their jobs and start handing out tickets on a routine basis.
Again, if my car’s muffler developed a large hole, or fell off of my car, or was removed by the previous owner, the police would look dimly at my decision to get earplugs rather than install a new muffler, regardless of the cost.
I don’t think motorcycles should be treated any differently.
Me too, with the caveat being it has to be a Harley, because IIRC only Harley can make 45° V-twins with a single pin crankshaft. And that sound is unique. I believe Harley has a trademark on that, but someone please correct me if that is inaccurate.
I hear other V-twins with modded pipes, and to me that sound is flatulennic diarrhea.
Add: for modded Harley exhausts, it can’t be too loud though. That just sucks. And is annoying. And rude. And inconsiderate. Some modded exhausts are a little louder without entering into that realm. And they sound great.
Why do you keep asserting that any loud motorcycle must not have a muffler? Or comparing it to a car without a muffler? You can always tell the difference of every motorcycle you can hear?
Many cars have modified mufflers and you are not complaining about them.
I have never heard ( snerk ) of a person complain about the noise from a sailboat that has an outline of a Harley Davidson Motorcycle on the sail but I now believe those people exist.
That’d be because this is a thread about loud motorcycles. Wait, let me guess…you’re about to tell us how you can be our worst nightmare in a stock Toyota Yaris.
Don’t care one bit if a motorcycle is too loud because:
[ul]
[li]An asshat has replaced the perfectly fine stock muffler with something that “snorts”. :rolleyes:[/li][li]An asshat has completely removed the mufflers and is running straight pipes.[/li][li]The stock muffler was fine, but has blown out all packing, developed a rust hole, or has somehow feel into disrepair.[/li][/ul]
You could take that same list and apply it to loud sportbikes, and I’m cool with that. Or hopped up Honda Civics, etc.
I’ve owned a number of high performance bikes. BMWs, Ducatis, and Hondas mostly. All had more than enough power and performance, and all had factory exhausts. And no, I don’t have a prejudice against Harley products, they are just not my preference to ride.
Stop playing the “I’m so special and different, I’m a rebel” card. It doesn’t pass muster here. Absolutely no facts back up any reason to have a loud exhaust on your “snorting hog” except that you like being loud. None.
Please show me where I said even once that any loud motorcycle must not have a muffler. What I have said repeatedly is that riders (and dealers) should not be removing or replacing the factory-installed muffler for the purpose of making their motorcycle louder.
Because I was specifically talking about my own car, and because I would never intentionally remove or replace my car’s factory-installed muffler for the purpose of making my car louder, the only way that my car would get that way is if the muffler wore out or fell off, and I did nothing about it.
Nope, nor do I care. I just notice the ridiculously loud ones.
First off, as Scumpup just noted, that’s because this thread is about loud motorcycles. Second, it is indisputably obvious that a far higher percentage of motorcycles have modified mufflers than cars have modified mufflers. Third, I do in fact have an issue with cars with modified mufflers – to be clear, I think that everyone going out of their way to be annoyingly loud and disturbing the peace such that they violate noise ordinances should be ticketed. This includes motorcycles with modified or missing mufflers, cars with modified mufflers, cars with missing or damaged mufflers, and cars with ridiculously loud audio systems.
:rolleyes: You can believe whatever you want. However, if you read some of the posts in this thread, or the linked article in Post #48, maybe it will sink in that your loud motorcycle is annoying the crap out of a lot of people around you. You must know this already, though, so I can only assume that you couldn’t care less.
Everyone is ignoring where I said I do not ride loud & never had a ticket or even a discussion about me or my bike making too much noise.
I also pointed out that most anything can be made annoying if you want to. It just does not need to be just noise but OK, we will stick with in the boundaries of the exact OP.
So Sumpup’s proclamation that I would rub feces in my hair just to be annoying and that is such an uncalled for insult that went with no commendation by anyone so even the moderators are okay with that.
He he, well an LEO has said that you are not likely to get your wish. Until you get in my face with your meter showing that I was too loud, I call BS on all the claims of me being the asshat and the offender. Just because I said I like a choice you all do not have any basis for your spite and comments on what I am or do. Your comments are just a sad fearful reaction from anonymous people on a message board who do not claim to have done anything to get their way other than ‘wishin & hopin’ that it will happen with no effort on their part.
Of course. You are always correct & right … 