Ahhhh, so your theory is that they’re the true patriots, but they’re also too humble to admit it to a pollster? :rolleyes:
I think it’s very possible that this kind of thing is linked to the election of Obama, and the conspiracy theories that were (and still are) very popular with Republicans about his birth and his associations. It’d be interesting to see if belief in birtherism correlates to the “extreme patriot” self-identification.
I’d certainly grant that if one has read and studied as much as you have about the founding and history of the country, you’d almost certainly be among the elite, at least as far as knowledge of those things are concerned. I’m not sure if simply having all that knowledge translates directly to being “patriotic”, but part of this discussion is exploring differing opinions on the definition of “patriotic”, so yours is certainly welcome into the fray.
I am curious: do you think that, for example, newly-sworn immigrant citizens are less patriotic than you because most of them have only a fraction of the knowledge you do on the subject?
My theory is the people that identify as “true patriots” are largely comprised of drunk fat impotent hillbillies who equate patriotism with carrying AK47’s into Applebees while plotting the overthrow of the evil overreaching federal government. And I’m still waiting for someone to explain how hating the federal government equates to love of country.
Man, I gotta say that we see a lot of bad apologies on this MB, but that’s one of the best I’ve seen in a long time. Couldn’t have said it better myself!!
The “giving them the run-around” assertion aside, it’s more likely that she noted that groups with specific political advocacy agendas were more likely to include the word “Patriot” in their name. That’s neither a judgment on, nor a signifier of, their actual level of patriotism.
That’s certainly one way to interpret what Mr. Dibble said.
This part of your post …
… seems to be at odds with this part of your post …
Why were so many more of these marginalized groups, whose “version of America is getting shot or beat for being different” telling Gallup they are satisfied with the way things were going in the country?
Yes, but they can choose to not offer a response if they find the question confusing or are unsure of the definition or feel that the question is erroneous. Only 1% did so, which suggests to me that most of them understood the question just fine.
Is this theory based on any sort of data or scientific evidence, or is it just your prejudices and biases speaking?
Right, but it’s how the person interprets what, exactly, extremely patriotic actually means verse very patriotic verse somewhat patriotic and whether they have a positive or negative connotation. For me (as someone who isn’t either Republican or Democrat), I’d say that ‘extremely patriotic’ actually has a negative connotation, and I’d consider myself somewhere between ‘very patriotic’ and ‘somewhat patriotic’ while considering myself pro-American…IOW, all are basically saying that the person is patriotic (though even that means different things to different people), but each side interprets the first part differently wrt whether it has a positive or negative connotation to them. If you look at those 3 categories in the poll it’s clear that there isn’t a lot of differences between Republicans and Democrats, it’s just a matter of how they are interpreting the question, and since, as Tom says, there are only a limited number of responses and no way to clarify, it’s going to be on how they made the response fit the limited criteria. As I said, the only really meaningful response that even weakly supports the OPs proposition is the last one, as that’s the only real difference between the political parties.
You are conflating being satisfied with the way things are with being satisfied with the way things are going. I can say that I am not entirely happy with how things currently are, but that the trendlines are good and that we are making progress in the right direction. Those are not conflicting sentiments.
Do you feel that definition is applicable, for example, to the Honor Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?
I think you missed the point.
Anyway, I really think it’s just that the Right has turned the concept of patriotism into a dirty word. The Left recoils from the ugliness, while the Right embraces it.
Let’s take another look at that poll.
52% of Republicans label themselves “Extremely Patriotic”, as opposed to 20% of Democrats, whereas 39% of Republics see themselves as “Very Patriotic”, as opposed to 42% of Democrats.
Is it being proposed that “Extreme Patriotism” is somehow better than merely being “Very Patriotic”? Personally, I’m not seeing it as a big plus that More Republicans see themselves as “extremists” than just “very patriotic”.
Do you?
Because they focus on a few, hand-picked issues instead of seeing the bigger picture. They’re no more patriotic than the Dems. They just have a need to flaunt it.
To put it another way, ‘Pubs think it soooooo important to be patriotic. Dems realize there are more pressing issues.
My viewpoint is formed by stuff like this.
And I’m still waiting to hear how "advocating for the overthrow of the federal government = love of country.
I’m not sure I’d call it “better”, but I certainly would call it “more”. As I noted in the other thread, pollsters often use some variation of this “extremely” / “very” / “somewhat” formulation in questions to measure (and I’ll probably mess up explaining this part) the degree of the respondent’s feelings.
As newly sworn immigrants have read, studied, and taken tests on all that material, they probably would have a pretty high level of “patriotism” based on that metric. Certainly higher than most natural born citizens.
They understood the question, but that does not mean that they understood the question the same way.
Put it this way, the Bundys, responsible for armed standoffs against the federal govt, would probably self identify as extremely patriotic, based on feelings that they should fight against the federal govt’s interference in their lives, while someone who is working to get vets care that the federal govt had been neglecting for years may consider themselves to be somewhat patriotic, or even not patriotic at all, based on the feelings they have as to how the govt is fulfilling its obligations to those it put in harms way.
Patriotism is ill defined, and is even more so in this context of a question.
Here’s a good article on the subject.
Here’s a quote:
“Imagine you observe a middle-aged guy standing on a rooftop screaming, “I’m straight! I’m straight! I am very heterosexual indeed!” at the top of his lungs. What would you think?
Would you say to yourself, “Why, there goes a straight young man! Boy, that guy must really love chicks!” I don’t think so. You would probably ask yourself who the hell this guy is trying to convince. The answer is always: himself.”
I have framed copies of the Constitution, Declaration, and Bill of Rights on my wall.
Does that rank me above or below my outside flag-waving neighbor? How about if the visual presentation is stunning - like you walk in my house, see the documents, and become aware that this is serious stuff in our lives… how does that compare to a man exercising his 1st Amendment rights at a Klan rally? Or the March For Women? Is my volunteer work for the Mayoral campaign more or less patriotic than my work for the Food Bank?
I’m interested in seeing the objective scoring card on this.