Why are so many Americans offended by foreigners commenting on American politics?

Great Debates
1

I’ve noticed this on message boards before. The message board where I’ve spent most of my internet time since ever is about half American, but lately I’ve been spending more time on predominantly American-populated message boards, and I’ve been noticing something disturbing. Whenever a foreigner starts getting critical of American policies or politicians, inevitably there’s going to be some Yank standing up to say, “What right do you have talking about my country? Go start a thread about your own!” Or something along those lines.

What the hell? What’s wrong with a foreign perspective on America? What’s wrong with foreigners talking about our leaders? We Americans certainly talk about theirs enough! I notice that it’s the isolationists who tend to want to shut the foreigners up more than others, but I still feel this hostility is unfounded and counterproductive. If anyone can explain this or justify it, I’d be glad to listen. I might not agree with your explanation, but you can still respect my opinion. After all, I’m an American.

2

I wouldn’t mind hearing the foreign perspective=) Heck about a good quarter of my friends arent american, american military, SCAdians or play EQ…and we talk about american and foreign politics both=)

I like hearing different perspectives. I think it would be nice to have these threads started=)

3

Well, I can’t justify it, but I might be able to explain it, a little.

One of the DJs on the alternative rock radio station I listen to (when I listen to the radio) actually made a comment on this yesterday on the air. He said (paraphrased) “It’s kinda like insulting my mom. I can call her a bitch, but if someone else calls her a bitch I’ll beat the crap out of them.”

I don’t see any problem with receiving foreign criticism (re: our leaders, economy, whatever). As you pointed out, we do the exact same thing to foreign leaders (and countries) all the time, so… I don’t see why some people really let it get to them.

LilShieste

4

LilShieste has good point, but I personally think it’s simply an easier response than actually trying to intelligently dispute whatever is being said. It’s a form of ad hominem.

5

Well if it makes you feel better, a lot of Irish people have the same reaction to Americans discussing their politics.

6

“Why are so many Americans offended by foreigners commenting on American politics?”

Because the truth hurts.

7

Foreigners in foreign lands are welcome to make whatever criticism they choose - we can handle the truth and dispose of the lies.

Foreigners (non-citizens) living in the United States should be aware that if their criticisms are fundamental and far-reaching, the immediate reaction of most Americans is, “Well, why don’t you go the hell home, then?”

8

I’ve never noticed offence by Americans. On the contrary. They always seem to welcome a foreigner’s view.

Some posts by non-Americans are so rude, that they make me embarrased. Even when *I * didn’t post them.

I’m not sure how I would react if my PM [who’s a terrible jerk] got insulted time and time again, by non-Dutchies.
Hats off, to the American dopers.

9

I, for one, have never discussed Irish politics in my life.

I lie. Just last night, whilst listening to the rockabilly stylings of the band at the local pub, we were roasting your president, whats-her-name. And of course, the zany madcap antics of the Dublin City Council are always good for hours of good natured mocking when the talk about baseball runs dry.

I don’t mind criticism of America when it is honest and well thought out. I’ll listen; I may learn something. The “Great Satan” variety of criticism doesn’t draw much attention from me though.

10

It depends on the nature of the criticism. Frankly I don’t care what the foreign perspective is on things like the death penalty, gun control, or other internal policy. I’ll happily and civilly discuss them with foreigners, and have on many occasions, but ultimately their opinion doesn’t really matter. If you’re polite about the way you discuss another nation’s foreign or domestic policy you’re probably not going to get your head bitten off.

For the most part we don’t talk about the leaders of other nations. If it weren’t for the Iraq war we wouldn’t have talked about France or Germany. If anything Europeans seem to complain because we don’t talk about them enough (ie. we’re oblivious to everyone else).
Marc

11

Actually, a good many of the Americans who react to foreigners offering critical opinions of our politics with “Who asked you? Butt out!” are inclined to react to Americans offering critical opinions of our politics with “If you don’t like it, why don’t you leave?”

12

At least a dozen times on this board I have been told to butt out of threads about American politics because, as a Canadian, I don’t have a right to express an opinion on it.

I agree with Revtim. It’s a form of ad-hominem attack.

13

Personally I don’t mind criticism from overseas (or across borders.)

For one, I don’t adhere to every single thing my country has ever done. I love my country, so if someone comes in with blanket statements like “Man, America is so fucking stupid because of xxx” I get a little pissed off. For one, I don’t like seeing my country flamed, two, this is a nation of nearly 300m persons, fifty states, dozens of ethnicities and religious beliefs. We aren’t a homogenous people, and Americans are never in unanimous agreement on anything we do.

But, as is the nature of internet discussions, you get generalizations. So when someone says the exact same above phrase, in a slightly less offensive manner (ex: “I really hate how America has handled terrorism”) then I don’t have much of any problem with it. It’s factually incorrect to say the Bush administration is America, eventhough a good portion of Americans (myself included, but not very many American Dopers) agree with Bush’s policies.

As to American politics, well, the only pet peeve I have is I’d like any foreigner that is going to comment very much on our politics at least be familiar with how the political system works over here.

14

I don’t think you are deliberately trying to mislead us, but I really find it difficult to believe that at least twelve times Dopers have told you that since you are not an American, you have no right to express an opinion on American politics, policies, or politicians.

Could it be that they have simply disagreed with the accuracy of information you have provided or perhaps found stereotypical thinking in what you have said?

I don’t intend any offense to you and I certainly won’t ask for twelve cites. But could you offer three or four examples of what you are talking about?

If someone has actually done that to you, they are foolish. I am thinking that you misinterpreted (for the most part).

In response to the OP, I find comments from non-Americans interesting and often insightful. Sometimes I have a different opinion. Lately, I tend to agree more and more often. Often I spot generalizations about Americans and I tend to bristle at those. But everyone has a right to an opinion.

15

I didn’t say twelve different dopers. And no, it wasn’t disagreement with the content of what I had to say, it was a direct challenge on my right to speak out on American issues because I’m Canadian. Twelve times might be a bit of an exaggeration - let’s just say multiple times. But let’s just drop the whole thing. Old history.

16

On another forum, I was blasted for being critical of America (particularly America’s high crime rate) and told that, as an Australian, I had no business discussing the subject.

I am not Australian. I’ve never even been to Australia. I am an American, and at the time I lived in America.

There was another poster with a username similar to mine who was Australian, hence the confusion. Once the mistake was pointed out, my opponent suddenly had nothing to say to me at all.

17

It depends on the question really. You can’t expect a nice reaction when someone insults you. Many of the questions are directed, not at a political leader, but at the voter behind the leader.

18

Define ‘so many’. I haven’t really seen many but the fringe girls and guys complain or take offense at foreigners (named furriners) commenting about the US…with the exception of when someone starts to rant about the country in a totally off the way, Great Satan type way. And, I hate to break it to you, but I’ve seen the exact same reaction when said furriners have THEIR nation or area (or religion, or sexual preference, or…) ranted about (by equally clueless individuals from the US or where-ever).

A good example is our pal, Alderbaran. He LOVES to rant off the deep end about the US…but generally doesn’t seem to have a clue as to how the US actually works. Thats fine. However, criticize the ME or a muslim country and he gets his back up big time. He can do indignation with the most virulent isolationist American any day of the week, and twice on sundays. Hell, criticize Europe and he, as well as several other of those damn furriners will get their back up. Same goes for any other area of the world. At a guess, if I were to post a rant about how fucked up and stupid people are in Outer Mongolia, SOMEONE on this board would get their backup about it. There are just a lot of American’s on this particular board…so the percentage of nut job Americans is higher than the percentage of nut job folks from, say, Bolivia or Kamchatka.

Its human nature IMO. WE can (and do…oh boy, do we) criticize to our hearts content about the US. Hell, we even have more than our fair share of anti-US ranters IN the US (I have a theory it correlates somehow to our higher than average percentage of lawyers, but its just a theory). However, there is something grating about having those furriners rant about the US thats like biting on tin foil to some folks…hell, probably to most folks if the truth be knows.

Constructive criticism, well thought out arguements, a moderate tone? I don’t think most folks get their hackles up about that. But when someone starts to rant and rave (see nearly any thread with posts from Alderbaran about US’ers for a good example of what I’m getting at here), its nearly a reflexive action to take up the defense.

I’ve even seen some of the ‘stars’ of this board, guys/gals who are very well known, and known to be critical of the US and very skeptical (to say the least) of the current administration rise up reflexively when a truely scathing screed comes down the pike blasting the US in a totally off the wall and unwarrented way. We do enough REAL shit, lord knows, to be criticized for…we dont really need made up stuff too.

-XT

19

I don’t see it here nearly as much as on other boards. Another reason I like this place so much.

What’s truly bizarre is when I’m hanging out on an English-langauge message board in Japan, and start seeing the “foreigners don’t have any right to complain about how Japan does things” and “if you don’t like the way things work here, go back where you came from” comments coming from other foreigners. Weird.

20

The ones who whine about “foreigners” critiquing US politics are usually the same ones who make sweeping, ignorant comments about the politics of European nations they know nothing about.

It’s just a form of intellectual weakness, really. Just thin-skinned, hypocritcal snottiness.

That’s because for the most part Americans are too butt ignorant to know who they are.

That may sound harsh but it’s the truth. Ask the average crowd in a supermarket who the respective leaders of France, Germany, Australia, England or Canada are. You may find a few who know Blair. The average European knows all of them.