Er, what?
From what I’ve seen, it’s the conservatives who don’t like to see foreigners participating in discussions of American politics, the same attitude that gives us “The United Nations is irrelevant.” Meanwhile, the non-conservatives are the ones who insist that we should heed the opinions of the rest of the world, since the United States might actually need help from foreign nations to sustain itself.
But then, “revisionist history” is a popular game among the right these days…
No one is talking about a reasoned reply to non-US posters. What Sam is talking about is questioning his right to post about US politics simply because he’s Canadian. I’ve seen it happen at least once in the last month alone. I won’t name the poster, but he/she has already contributed to this thread and should at least have the courage to adimit it him/herself.
rjung has addressed this quite well, but I’d like to cover a little more territory and ask you, unequivocally, to put up or shut up. You know my political stance quite well by now, Brutus; provide me with one example, if you can, of where I have told any Doper or guest they shouldn’t voice their opinion in a debate because they weren’t a citizen of the country whose policies were under discussion.
You are the token marxist, right? As you well know, comrade, not only should the workers own the means of production, but they should also go back a page and read the dialect of comrade iamme99. If only the workers of the world would unite, they would see that I didn’t specifically name you as an offender.
Perhaps you and and comrade rjung could provide proof of the opposite? Where the right-wing imperialist/capitalist pig-dogs tell a foreign doper to shut it?
You, Brutus, are not my comrade.
Not only have I read that post, I’ve replied to it. Nowhere in that post do I see anything specifically identifying iamme99 as a leftist, either.
No, of course you didn’t. But you did state that the only Dopers who have told foreigners to shut it because of their country of residence are the leftists, and being a leftist it therefore it would stand to reason that I have done the same at some point during my stay here. That is, if we assumed your argument actually had some basis in fact, which it doesn’t.
rjungmade that claim, and I’ll leave it to him to back it up - something I think he’ll have an easier time doing than you will in your task. Which it’s doubful you’ll undertake, given the amount of weaseling in your most recent post.
Um… no. 1) A is a mammal. 2) Some mammals are green. 3) It does not necessarily follow that A is green.
You’ll be my pal if I can be your comrade.
I strongly doubt the “average european” would know the name of the Australian prime minister. I’m pretty sure at least that the “average french” doesn’t.
Oh hell, you’re right; Brutus’ statement would be disproved by finding a right-wing Doper who engaged in such behavior rather than finding a left-wing Doper who didn’t. I still think his statement is factually incorrect, however.
Remember, the poster must move amongst the BBS as a fish swims in the sea! Also, it helps when they use ‘common sense’. If you expect every post to carry a persons political affiliation, then it is obvious that the yankee pig-dogs have stolen your common sense, much as they steal labor from their enslaved working class! iamme99 is one of yours. You will need to use that tool of the intelligista, ‘reading’, to figure that out.
Fraternal greetings to the peoples of socialist nations, and I still wait for a example of a rightie from these boards telling a foreigner to hush up!
I know Australia. But haven’t got the faintest idea who’s president of Canada of whether they even have a president or a Prime Minister or just make do with a lumberjack. Of course I’m so dumb Bush could beat me in checkers.
See also in that thread, post #61 by Magiver and posts #72, 74, 78, and 85 by Senggüm.
We have a prime minister. Our current prime minister is named Paul Martin. Nobody elected him. He was chosen as an interim leader by his party when Jean Chrétien stepped down from the job late last year. An election was called yesteday for June 28.
Since jshore already did the legwork on this (thanks!), I’ll just remind comrade Brutus that examples of conservatives tryingh to silence dissenting voices isn’t limited to foreigners. Just allowing students to write anti-war poetry is enough to get the “freedom-loving” righties in an uproar…
And then? Why shouldn’t we have an opinion aboiut your politicians? How could we even avoid to have such an opinion. And why not express it?
As for inserting ourselves in your political process or trying to influence your vote, once again, why not, if we can? Why should we limit ourselves to influence things happening within our borders? Especialy in the case of country like the USA, which has a lot of influence and doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Actually, I believe we should feel concerned about what’s hapening in other countries. If I had a mean to convince one hundred US or Italian people to vote against their current leaders, I would not hesitate to do so.
Also, concerning people maquereding as americans : why should it import? If an argument is convincing, does it cease to be so when it comes from a foreigner? Why would it change a thing?
Since this entire thread has been devoid of hard evidence, it seems fair to add my own impression (based in part on SDMB observations) that:
Non-Americans are every bit as prickly as Americans concerning criticism by “outsiders”, have as much pride in their nationality, and are just as willing to tell xenophobic, ignorant bigots to bug off.
The quotient of vocal self-loathing may be a bit higher among Americans, but I’m not yet willing to accept that as a foregone conclusion.
I suspect you’ve been wooshed…
Part of it derives from us being a “nation of immigrants”.
Ultimately, anybody who isn’t a Amerindian is an immigrant or the decendent of immigrants.
They came here to get away from their homelands.
This implies a rejection of “the way things are done back in the Old Country”. Including political ideas.
In addition, people who were already here pressured new immigrants to conform to American customs/views.
So a hostility exists towards “foreigners who try to tell us what to do”.
Note that, IMHO, more hostility exists towards European political input than, say, Asian business techniques.
Watch it, or I may have to enact a thoroughly leftist ‘hate-speech law’ to stop that sort of posting…
<puts down I agree with xtisme! sign, picks up I agree with Bosda! sign>
Truth is, we do listen, but not only are the “comments of the world” sometimes an endless babble of contradictory advice, but we do have to consider the source. In addition to what Bosda said, many of us have relatives in graves scattered around the world, testimony to our rescue of all too many European and Asian nations that wasted large parts of the 20th century and countless lives with stupid and dangerous ideas. We watch as our soldiers have to go over and cope with things that Europe really should be taking care of on its own but simply can’t, like the Yugoslavian wars.
So forgive us for not regarding the rest of the world’s “wisdom” without a healthy dose of skepticism.
That said, of course informed advice and healthy debate is always nice to hear. But anything that starts off with “Listen, you flag-waving fat morons…!” won’t get anywhere.