Why are the Trump defectors having such little impact on the polls and Trump's chances?

Politics & Elections
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Actually that tell us one item that is a part of the remaining systemic racism, it is still discrimination.

The kind of discrimination described in the study often goes unnoticed because statistics often portray Asian-Americans as doing quite well — one of the best educated, highest income racial groups in the United States. But such statistics belie the fact that they’re still not treated equally in comparison to their white counterparts. What’s more, data on Asian-Americans is rarely broken up sufficiently so that it differentiates between Cambodian-Americans and Korean-Americans. That level of generalization can skew perceptions of how parts of the population are doing in certain regards.

Reitz said that when researchers of the studies cited above asked employers to explain why they called fewer Asian applicants, they usually received a response along the lines of, “Well, you see an Asian name and you know that language problems are going to be there.”

For many Asian-Americans, this kind of discrimination means that the pressure to change their names and shed the perpetual foreigner stereotype is strong. In 2009, Texas state representative Betty Brown suggested during House testimony that all Chinese-Americans change their names to ones “we could deal with more readily here.” But for many, those Asian names given at birth hold a lot of meaning. As Quartz writer Zheping Huang wrote, “This is the only name that I feel I belong to.”

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That really is taking the thread in a whole new direction, but to put it simply…

The lives of black people matter. That goes without saying and is really pointless to discuss further.

Having said that, why would I join a movement, a political group, that lumps in a bunch of other things I don’t agree with just to affirm something I take as an inherent truth of my reality?

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Sure, I get all that. But what you’re saying is, when Lakisha loses the job to Emily, it’s her own fault, and not the fault of the people who are unable to get over this knee jerk reaction.

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I’m not saying it’s her fault. And in an ideal world I agree with you that the name Lakisha would carry no negative stereotypes, or really any stereotypes at all.

The reality is that even within the black community, “excessively” black names are something of a joke and associated with lower class, uneducated black people. In fact, it’s not uncommon for black people seeking professional employment to change their names.

Again, is that racist? Sure, maybe to some degree. Should I be able to change my name to Jigglypuff and expect to never be made fun of? Sure, in an ideal world.

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But if it’s not her fault, whose fault is it?

“Hey, Lakisha, sorry it’s so hard for you to find a job. But you know that name you’ve had all your life, that you didn’t choose but have always known as an intrinsic part of your identity, that your beloved parents called you from the minute you were born? The folks in HR associate it subconsciously with having three kids before you’re 19. But I hear they’re hiring at Popeye’s.”

Prejudices and stereotyping are not immutable or fixed. It doesn’t have to be “an ideal world” for people to change them, and that’s a lot more fair than suggesting Lakisha should change her name.

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Again, thank you for the insight.

So no negative interactions with police when driving while black? Nothing when shopping while black?

What about your family members and close friends? Do they have a similar outlook and experience?

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I’ve been pulled over four times in my life, twice for speeding (once 15mph over the limit and the other doing 20 over the limit), once for an illegal turn on red and once for tabs that had expired by a few days. The cops declined to write me a ticket all of those times except for the 20mph offense. They were mostly polite, neutral at worst.

I’ve never been accused of shoplifting.

My close friends have had largely the same experience. Not all of their outlooks exactly mirror mine, but none of my black family members or friends have had any incidents with police beyond traffic stops like mine. None of them have had a speeding ticket that resulted in their car being searched, being hand cuffed, anything of the sort.

My dad has owned his own company for 30 years and has told me for as long as I can remember that there are always jobs available if you’re willing to work.

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It appears the experiences of your friends and family are very unusual as compared to the larger black population, according to polling:

https://medicine.tufts.edu/news/2020/06/two-thirds-african-americans-know-someone-mistreated-police-and-22-report-mistreatment

“Sixty-eight percent of African Americans say they know someone who has been unfairly stopped, searched, questioned, physically threatened or abused by the police, and 43 percent say they personally have had this experience—with 22 percent saying the mistreatment occurred within the past year alone”

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Do you think your experience and that of people that you know is more common or less common, based on various data available (as shared in the previous post)?

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I will address both of your posts here.

Yes my experience is anecdotal and not representative of all black people living in all places of the country.

That said, I would ask you to consider that it is not uncommon for black Americans to be primed to view police (and indeed white people) as inherently oppositional to black people. It can be very easy to feel that way, especially when you’re constantly told by a variety of sources that society is out to get you. The idea of having “the talk” about police being out to get black people is now common place enough that it is mentioned in the mainstream news.

If your starting point for dealing with the police (and the same holds for white people) is that they are taking every opportunity to persecute you, can you understand how you might more easily assume a traffic stop for speeding, even if you really were speeding, was unjust? If that is your presumption, you might also be more inclined to be confrontational with the police when they justly stop you for doing 40 in a 30.

I want to be clear, I am not at all suggesting that anyone deserves to be handcuffed, tased, or shot because a traffic stop escalated in to a physical altercation. I repeat, I am not in the slightest saying I believe that that is ok.

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So when do you think things actually changed? For the vast majority of American history, it’s indisputable that law enforcement was largely a dangerous and even deadly enemy of black people. Certainly well past the middle of the 20th century. In my experience, white supremacists and racists are more likely, not less, to become cops or other law enforcement officers. How and why are you so sure that this has changed so much, so quickly?

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I doubt anyone could put a hard date on when things changed, or started to change. To be sure, there is still discrimination. There are still racists. There always will be.

But my lived experience has been that they are the exception, not the norm. The experience of my parents and friends tells me the same thing. Having worked closely with nearly 1,000 black middle and high school students in the inner city has taught me the same thing. Today, in 2020, the oppositional mindset and the negative, bitter, resentful emotions that come with it are far more damaging than the relatively small amount of pure racism that exists out in the world.

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Okay. Your experiences are just colossally different from the black people among my friends, family, coworkers, and acquaintances.

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That’s certainly possible

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So to circle back, how do you think this ‘uncomfortable conversation’ should be had, and with whom?

What should Obama have said during his presidency and/or what should he be saying now to reduce the disparities being faced by minorities, blacks in particular?

Or maybe better still, what advice would you give?

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The easiest way to describe what I’d envision would be something like the fireside chats.

This board is pretty reasonable, and the people here are relatively intelligent, thoughtful and educated compared to the general population. As we both saw, even considering that, it was not exactly easy to reach a point (though I think we have, and I appreciate you all for that) where everyone was considerate of each others differing perspectives.

Because these conversations require a cool head and patience to be productive, they are exceedingly rare in the “real” world. The easy thing for democrats to say is that we need to provide greater support for minorities and disenfranchised peoples. The easy thing for republicans to say is that everyone needs to pull their pants up.

The truth, where we all reach common ground is somewhere in the middle. The frank, uncomfortable truth is the fact that personal accountability and agency is a problem in the black community today, perhaps the largest. Regardless of why that is, at the end of the day it is ultimately a problem for black people to solve, and in many ways a problem that only black people can solve.

Black parents often complain that the public education system doesn’t do enough for their kids, not understanding that sending your kids to school is not a replacement for being an active part in their education at home. I learned far more about the world from my parents than I did in school.

Black neighborhoods say that there aren’t enough community outreach programs providing opportunities for their children outside of school, not understanding that parents need to provide their own kids with music lessons, athletic programs, and camping trips.

Young black kids need to be told by their own parents, flat out, that if they have a child at 15 and cannot afford to provide their kids with those opportunities that they cannot rely on the government to step in and fill the void. That even if the government is financially able to do so, it is not a replacement for time spent on a road trip with your own parents.

We cannot keep looking at teenage pregnancy as something that just happens as a result of poverty, as a result of a larger systemic failure. It is the job of parents to teach their kids better, and it’s entirely possible.

We cannot keep excusing rioting and looting and destroying our own communities as a product of “400 years of frustration and anger.” We need to restore self discipline, emotional control and self respect as virtues.

We can’t say the white man is racist when he pulls a black man over for doing 15 mph over the speed limit in a residential area because “white people were speeding too.” We have to take accountability for our own actions and the impact it has on other people.

Maybe Obama could have presented that with enough tact not to enrage half of the black electorate. Though at this point, if it resonated with even 10% of the black community it’d be worth it.

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I have not walked a mile in your shoes, but I can certainly imagine how this can certainly be a part of an “uncomfortable conversation” worth having.

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I think this is where you are missing what many that talk about justice are talking about, it is not really that one can not pull up a black man for doing 15 mph over the speed limit, it is that most of the white speeders need to have the same treatment.

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I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. If I brought home an F from school, my parents weren’t interested in hearing that a third of the class also got an F. All they care about is for me to be responsible and accountable for is the F that I got.

Which is not me saying that there isn’t a racism problem with the police. There absolutely is. Having a fresh new attitude about racist cops is not going to fix that problem. But neither will complaining that the white guy didn’t also get pulled over for speeding.

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Thanks, @QuickSilver, that’s exactly what I’m getting at

Also thanks to you too GIGObuster for participating in a really interesting discussion. It’s helpful to share these ideas with others