A decent working knowledge of the law would be invaluable to the average citizen. I was wondering the other day why it’s not taught to the non-professional. Is it because the professional class of lawyers wants it to remain their private preserve? Would knowledge of the law be “dangerous” for civil order, i.e., would it make people generally more adept at manipulating the law?
Every class that a law school prof teaches for undergrads is a class they’re not teaching for law students. I think that has more to do with it than anything else.
For what it’s worth, the Universirty of Virginia has (or at least had) an undergraduate course in commercial law.
I’ve taken all sorts of classes in Business Law at the local community college.
I wasn’t really thinking about focused fields like commercial law, but rather an overview of the legal system with emphasis on civil rights and criminal law–things that would make a better informed citizen. I’m not sure what department it would go in though. Maybe political science?
I took Business Law at community college. I believe Evidence was also offered.
I also took two Poli Sci courses:
- Constitutional Law, Rights
- Constitutional Law, Powers
These courses focused on the US Constitution and delved into free speech, criminal procedure, free religion, Commerce clause, due process, federalism / separation of powers, etc.
I imagine some colleges have Pre-Law programs, but these are advisory programs or programs that offer a general cross-section of philosophy and Poli Sci courses.
Now that I think about it, it seems like there’s another big issue in doing a general course on the law, and that’s the sheer volume of information you’d have to cover to give a meaningful introduction. I don’t think you could fit anything worthwhile in a semester-long class.
Like Bearflag70, I also took a number of “law” classes in the PoliSci Dept. Basically just an expansion of the stuff I teach to high school seniors in American Government.
Guess I didn’t go to a good enough school.
:smack:
It’s unlikely that undergraduate law courses would teach the kind of practical knowledge you refer to. Undergraduate courses in any discipline don’t tend to focus on practical knowledge. I agree that it would be great if everyone knew their basic rights. I don’t see how it could be dangerous. Our criminal justice system is designed to balance individuals’ civil rights with society’s need to punish the guilty, and that balance is thrown out of whack when only law enforcement is aware of the rules. I know of some non-profit organizations that teach “street law” seminars, usually to inner-city public high school students. Google “street law” or “know your rights” and you’ll find some good information.
I don’t know why anyone would say that there are no “courses in Law” at the undergraduate level. Perhaps there aren’t any at your particular institution, but many schools offer baccalaureates in Law, Legal Studies, Criminal Justice etc., and each obviously offers undergraduate level courses in “Law”. I don’t know current state bar requirements, but I do know that some states did allow baccalaureates of approved programs to apply to their state bar just over a decade ago (when I happened to look into it). Paralegal programs also offer courses that could be enlightening for the intereste layman.
It might be like asking why there are no undergraduate courses in “medicine”. Heck, we didn’t have any such course in medical school! (We did have a rotation in “Internal medicine,” which was sometimes casually called “medicine”, but I don’t think that a 3 month, 60-72hr/wk “learn by doing” experience is what the OP had in mind, and it requires considerable prior medical coursework anyway) “Medicine 101” would hardly be “medicine” at all; perhaps the same is true of the law
Law is, in a sense, more complicated: Medicine is universal, law is jurisdictional. I cn treat people anywhere in the world, with some adjustment for local practice (in fact, I’d planned on doing a few months in a jungle next year, and still may, if the organizing group can overcome a recent major setback); an attorney would have to do considerably more preparation to move from the US to Canada or California to Alabama!
The OP dismisses “specialized” courses in business law, criminal law, etc. that are quite common in the local colleges here in Boston, but I suspect an “overview” of the entire legal system in a single course with a standard undergraduate workload would be so vague and fraught with unnoted exceptions that it would actually be dangerous for the student to apply the lessons learned (“A little knowledge is a dangerous thing”). Every undergraduate text I’ve seen for such courses in the commercial code, criminal law, procedure, Constitutional Law, etc. start with the warning that they are, by necessity, incomplete.
Perhaps 4-5 courses is more than the OP is wishes to commit to, but I suspect that it would be difficult to reduce the subject much below that with a “standard” workload" and present a genuinely useful product. The law has been something of a hobby of mine for over 20 years, but I’m constantly surprised by the things I learn, and exceptions and changes in the areas I thought I understood well in the past (which is what makes it such a rewarding hobby). Even law school graduates can take years to learn the ropes.
Actually, now that I think about it, I’ve seen courses that overview the civil and criminal systems in a single semester, and they are hopelessly vague. They amount to “Civics Plus”, and (usually) don’t call themselves “basic law” any more than undergraduate first aid, paramedical or nursing courses call themselves “basic medicine”. As others have noted, such courses tend to be in departments like Political Science or Business.
I’m using UVA as an example again, cause that’s where I went. Their law school offers concentrations in the following fields:
Administrative Law and Regulation
Business Organization and Finance
Commercial Law
Communications and Media Law
Constitutional Law
Criminal Justice
Employment and Labor Law
Environmental Law
Family Law
Health Law
Human Rights and Civil Liberties Law
Intellectual Property
International and National Security Law
Jurisprudence and Comparative Law
Legal History
Litigation and Procedure
Race and Law
Tax Law
Now, you can probably safely assume that not all of those are equally important, but still, there’s going to be a survery class in each of those areas. How could you distill even two of those into one class and get anything meaningful?
I took a course in Constitutional Law as an undergraduate. It was very similar, in level of instruction, to courses I later took in law school. (Except that the prof only lectured and never asked Socratic questions of the students and did not even encourage classroom discussions.)
I’m confused by this thread. In the UK many schools teach law courses; you can take GCSE Law and A-level Law. Then you can go to University and study Law as your first degree. In America, do you need a first degree before they allow you to take a Law degree?
Yes. Although the first degree doesn’t need to be in law; it can be in any field.
I took Business Law in high school, in 1966. It covered the basics of contracts, torts, and wills. It was enough to keep a store manager out of trouble. It was one of the most useful courses I ever took.
We don’t really learn any specific, practical law in law school. A recent law school graduate is equally unqualified to practice in any state. You learn some state-specific law studying for the bar exam, but only on a handful of subjects, and it’s not really enough to practice. What you learn in law school are legal principles and reasoning that allow you to learn about the law while in practice.
To make things blindingly clear for everyone, and to make sure I have my own head on right:
The OP doesn’t want a full overview of US law, or even the local law of his jurisdiction. The OP wants a full appraisal of his civil rights, especially as they relate to crimial prosecution and police procedure. The OP is interested in something like a night school that teaches what every citizen should know to keep out of trouble and to avoid getting fucked over by incompetent or corrupt police officers and prosecuting attorneys.
Is that correct, pyrrthon1?
Sorry, you’ve lost me there. I don’t quite understand. You need a degree in any field before you can take law as a 2nd degree … the first degree doesn’t hve to be in Law, but it can be?
I’m not intending to be sarcastic, here. I really don’t understand. Is it possible to take Law as your first degree?
The sort of law degree you need to practice is a graduate (second) degree. Some institutions will let you take pre-law as an undergraduate (first) degree, but I don’t think that’s terribly common. So most students who go to law school have degrees in some other field; English (literature, basically) is probably the most common, but things like music, math, and even engineering aren’t unheard of.
In the United States, law is a three-year graduate degree, called a Juris Doctor. You must first complete a four-year bachelor degree. So it takes seven years of university study to become a lawyer, though during only three years of that study are you actually studying law.
Some schools offer “Pre-law” or something similar as an undergraduate degree. I suppose it gives you a jumpstart in law school, but it’s not very common. Political science is probably the most common undergrad major for law students, but it’s definitely not a majority. The best preparation for law school is any course of study that entails a lot of writing, critical analysis, and research. Keep in mind that liberal arts majors spend two years of their studies taking general courses anyway - anything from art history to mathematics.