Why aren't more Christians universalists?

Great Debates
1

This is mainly aimed at the Christians on the board, but others are free to chime in.

Christian universalism is the ancient but minority-held theological doctrine that says, in a nutshell, that through Jesus Christ *all people *are saved, and no one will spend eternity separated from God (i.e. in hell).

Universalists can differ on whether a person must actually profess faith in Christ or not. Those who believe that a profession of faith is necessary believe that all people will eventually do so - if not in this life, then in the next.

It seems to me the scriptural support for the idea that all people have been saved by Christ is pretty strong, so why is the (much more unpleasant) belief that many, if not most, people are going to spending eternity in hell so prevalent in mainstream Christianity? And especially in Evangelicalism and other traditions that place such a high value on biblical inerrancy?

Here are just a few of the many verses that seem to support the idea that no one will ultimately be left out of God’s kingdom (the emphasis is mine, since the NT writers lacked a bold font):

John 12:31-32
[Jesus said] “Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

John 12:47
[Jesus said] “I do not judge anyone who hears my words and does not keep them; for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”

Romans 5:18
“Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.”

Romans 11:32
“For God has imprisoned all in disobedience, so that he may be merciful to all.”

1 Corinthians 15:22
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.”

2 Corinthians 5:19
“In Christ God was reconciling **the world **to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us.”

Ephesians 1:9-10
“[God] has made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure that he set forth in Christ, as a plan for the fullness of time, to gather up all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.”

Colossians 1:19-20
“For in [Jesus] all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile himself to all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his Christ.”

1 Timothy 4:10b
“We have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially those who believe.” (Implies that those who don’t believe are also saved).

Titus 2:11
“For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all.”

1 John 2:2
“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Now, there are reasonable interpretations for some of these verses that can make a case for exclusivism - in other words “Sure, John’s epistle says Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, but if someone doesn’t accept that sacrifice, it is not impressed upon that person. It has to be freely accepted.” But that interpretation is not self-evident, and is not a counter for all of these verses. “In Christ all shall be made alive” doesn’t leave much wiggle room for opting out.

Am I sliding into heresy? The Bible says that it is God’s will that all people be saved; can someone convince me that when all is said and done, God’s will is ultimately thwarted?

2

I sort of agree with you. I would add that Jesus lives in us, and we die for others in service to God’s Kingdom doing the work of Christ.

Also, God does not change, the way to God has not changed, it was and is always the same, which means the way was possible before the birth of Christ.

It is said that Enoch walked with God, as well as Adam and Eve. That was Christ. God in human form they walked with.

Christ also gives us His name, so we are Christ. Christianity not needed for this salvation.

Peace

3

Point 1: God ALLOWS a great many things that are not part of His will. This is precisely why evil exists at all.

Point 2: God knew ahead of time that people would use their free will in all sorts of ways that He wouldn’t like. But He went ahead and created us with it anyway. The point was to have intelligent beings who could make a free, voluntary choice to worship Him–unlike the angels, who had exactly one chance to make their choice, and are now locked into that choice forever.

Point 3: You need to realize that the offer of a gift, and the acceptance of a gift, and completely different things. It is absolutely true that God offers salvation to everybody. But only a comparative handful of people accept salvation.
“Enter ye in at the strait [narrow] gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it” (Matt. 7:13, 14).

Point 4: You’re misunderstanding I Cor. 15:22. People who think that they can earn their way to Heaven, or that there are multiple ways to Heaven, etc., etc., are not “in” Jesus. They’re in sin. You can be in sin, or in Jesus, but not both.

Point 5: Your confusion shows the need of reconciling the Scriptures. You quoted several that talk about God’s love and mercy. But that’s an unbalanced view of God. You must also include His justice and His holiness to get the full picture.

4

As a member of an ELCA (liberal Lutheran) congregation, I’d say that about roughly 90% of my congregation, including both pastors, are Christian Universalists. That doesn’t necessarily hold for most of the denomination (though I wouldn’t really know how many of them are or are not universalists). I get the impression that most mainline Christian denominations are moving more and more towards universalism.

5

How can you feel superior to others if everyone gets the same reward?

6

To answer the OP:

There is a misunderstanding of what “all” means. Salvation is OFFERED to all. It does not mean all will take it.
By analogy, the Los Angeles Lakers can offer free Lakers tickets to everyone for free and say “Everyone who brings a ticket to the stadium will be given admission to the game,” but if someone does not take the free tickets, then when they show up to the stadium empty-handed, they will not be allowed into the facility.
Also, as others have pointed out, there are numerous verses that speak of people going to Hell. Such as “Broad is the path that leads to destruction, and many shall find it” and “Whoever’s name was not found in the Book of Life was thrown into the Lake of Fire.” Those verses carry weight. They can’t be disregarded just because they sound intolerant or make people uneasy.

7

It’s bad for business? Much easier to control people and get their money if you can hold the threat of eternal damnation over their heads.

8

Furthermore, Universalism - if understood to mean that everyone goes to Heaven, no exceptions - would mean that someone can be a willfully unrepentant murdering genocidal rapist torturer all their lives, with every willful intention to sin as much as possible to their dying breath, and still get to Heaven, with no repentance or change whatsoever.

9

Plenty of evangelists are not in the money business whatsoever. Wycliffe Bible translators in in Papau New Guinea or missionaries in Nepal are hardly rolling in Franklins. What do you think motivates them?

10

Well yes. And I do believe people like Adolph Hitler, etc. will be resurrected and live with the rest of God’s people in the Age to Come. I also think that coming up face to face with one’s Creator will tend to make folks a bit more humble and contrite. That and having their sinful nature burned up in a fire of purification. But regardless, we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

11

But as Christians, don’t we believe that ultimately evil will be defeated? You seem to argue for an eternal stalemate, with God being unable to reconcile some people to himself like he wants to do.

I’m not arguing against free will, I don’t think. I’m saying that people have the choice to worship God or not. But either they’ve been saved anyway; or, they will eventually ‘give in’ and acknowledge that Jesus is Lord (presumably after death). Also I’d be curious to see scriptural support for your assertion about angels.

No, I’m quite clear on that and I think that argument can be used to wiggle out of some of the verses I quoted, but not all. At least not easily. But what you are saying is that we are not actually saved by the grace of God, but by our own initiative to accept this grace of God?

But being “in Jesus” is being contrasted to being “in Adam.” In Adam, *x *applies to everybody. In Jesus, *y *applies to everybody. I’m not sure I buy your interpretation.

Okay, and I admit there are verses in the NT that seem to say that some people will end up in hell. How do you reconcile them with the verses that say all things in heaven and earth will be saved?

12

One answer doesn’t have to fit each and every Christian. For some it is greed, for some it is fear, for some it is indoctrination, for some it is a means of feeling superior, for some it is just blind faith, for some it’s any combination of the above, and for some it’s something else.

13

I think one important missing answer is inertia - having grown up with it and never given it a second thought until it came up in some discussion.

14

If you burn up my sinful nature, you’ve resurrected me only to kill me again. Thanks?

Which is to say that it’s pretty easy to come up with biblical interpretations where everybody is brought back to life, but that’s not necessarily a good thing for them.

15

That’s the evangelical party line, but can you support it scripturally? Where does it say you have to accept salvation? If the Lakers say “everyone gets in for free” and you show up without a ticket, they can still let you in. If you have to have a ticket it’s not really free, is it?

Yes, and I am not dismissing these verses. I just think that they have to be interpreted in the light of other passages.

Maybe. Perhaps God’s mercy is so vast and deep that he forgives even the unrepentant. Or perhaps there is repentance or the opportunity to change after death. Ultimately I think the love of God and the draw of God’s kingdom will be irresistible to the most hardened sinner.

16

I acknowledge this. I think that organized Christianity, which includes lots of decent and sincere believers who are motivated by saving souls, is mostly responsible for the spread of the religion. But like all large organizations, it is corrupt and amoral, despite the decency of many of the individuals within it, and that corruption and amorality means that the general trends are motivated by greed, power, and other base concerns.

I’ll also add that Universalism doesn’t provide much motivation to convert… If I’m saved no matter what I believe or do, why change my beliefs or practices? Thus having a threat to hang over the head of potential converts will result in more successful conversion.

17

Generally speaking, I’ve found that the people who have converted solely or mostly due to fear of damnation don’t tend to change their practices all that much, and mostly tend to change their beliefs just enough so that they feel they are on the proper side of the line. Which may have been useful in past eras, but doesn’t seem to impart any benefit (money or power-wise) nowadays.

18

Depends how you define “success”.

19

Trivial. “Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and you shall be saved.” Or John 3:16, which again requires belief. Or when Jesus condemned the Pharisees and said they’d already gotten their reward on Earth. The various verses where Jesus says that people will be denied access to heaven, “Depart from me, I never knew you” and all that. The one where Jesus says that rich people will find it nearly impossible to get to heaven. The list goes on.

There are people specifically asking Jesus what is required to be saved. And Jesus gives them an answer, and that answer isn’t “nothing, because I will save you.” He’s all about teaching people the way they should act and condemning those who don’t.

There’s also when Paul talks about being required to die to sin, and condemns those who don’t. If everyone gets to heaven, then there is no reason to not sin. Hell, there’s no reason not to go around killing everyone and sending them to heaven, and then get to heaven yourself afterwards!

Anything evil can be justified if everyone is saved. There’s not even any reason to spread the gospel! They’re going to go to heaven anyways, so let them find out then, and don’t worry about it! Yet Jesus told them to spread it, meaning there is a reason.

And then there’s what heaven is like. Heaven is perfect, and there is no sadness or suffering. To be happy, we’d need to have the free will to do the things we want to do. Therefore, those whose free will desire is to harm others cannot be present. God is specifically said to hand out judgement to these people.

The only possibility that fixes this is that there is a time of punishment, and then eventual reward. The problem there is that there is no scriptural support for any such after-death conversions. There’s nothing about being punished for a while and then being allowed in. Scripture seems to assume you only have this one shot while you’re still alive. It condemns “Let us eat and drink and be merry, because tomorrow we die!”

Just because there are some scriptures that say that Jesus provided salvation to all doesn’t mean that the scriptures disappear which say that some won’t be saved. The answer was already understood pretty early on: all are offered salvation, but not all accept it. That fixes the problem without needing to invent some after-death conversion which isn’t described. It’s consistent with the need to spread the gospel to everyone.

20

Which of course, goes back to the question of: Well how about the billions who lived before Christ, at the same time but not in the same area, or after but never heard the Gospel? Are they all condemned to Hell?

If your answer is yes, please explain the justice and mercy in this judgement.

I do like the Sikh answer. They’re monotheists, but they accept the truth of other religions.

The three pillars of Sikhism are: a) To remember God at all times which includes being thankful to God for what you have been given, b) To live your life honestly/with integrity and c) Sharing what you have with those less fortunate.

“If you are Hindu, he said be a good Hindu,” Johar says. “If you are Muslim, be a good Muslim. If you are Christian, be a good Christian.”