Why aren't passports acceptable ID when buying alcohol?

[mnemosyne]

@Balthisar

Holy cow! That’s almost literally an “allowed-to-purchase-alcohol” license! On my many trips to The Beer Store or the few trips to LCBO, I’ve never been carded. In the cited link, though, I didn’t see any mention of other ID cards that are accepted – does it specify driver’s licenses in the general sense, or specifically Ontario driver’s licenses? I can’t imagine they’d want to lose so much money by turning down all of the Michigan licenses (including mine) that are floating around here.

Is there LCBO and The Beer Store equivalents back in Quebec, or does the government there let the free market reign? Back in Michigan, it’s easy to get a license to sell beer, but the MLCC is pretty tight with liquor licenses. It’s still the monopoly supplier to businesses, and until recently had price controls on all liquor statewide. Interestingly by going to “free market” with prices, I’ve only seen prices go up.

Also in your link I see reference to “illegal wine makers,” but yet in the area I’m staying at, I know of at least two places that let you make your own wine on their premises. As a home-beer-brewer back home, I know that home wine making is popular, too. Is that not the case in Ontario?

They regularly accepted licenses from other states and provinces… the employees didn’t always know to recognise them, but they are officially accepted. The health card thing is a bit of an anomaly, I think. If they didn’t have so many problems with fakes when they first changed formats, they probably would accept them (unless the story I was told repeatedly isn’t true… that’s a possibility!)

I don’t know how the make-your-own wine places work, but they are clearly within the law, since there are quite a few of them. I guess you’d have to ask!

Yes, the BYID is pretty much a “I’m allowed to buy booze” license. For those people who, at 19, don’t have a driver’s license, it is often easier to just get a BYID than to carry a passport around (or join the Armed Forces!)

The Québec government controls the sale and distribution of alcohol in this province too. They have the SAQ, which is a lot like the LCBOs, which sells wine and liquor, but beer and malt-based mixes and some wines can be sold in grocery stores and dépanneurs (convenience stores). Hotels, restaurants, etc get their license and deliveries from the SAQ, I think. The legal drinking age here is 18, also. I like to joke that the difference between Ontario and Québec’s attitude towards alcohol is in the names… Liquor CONTROL Board of Ontario… Société d’Alcool du Québec (Alcohol Society :))

[TheLoadedDog]

@ratatoskK

Have you ruled out stupidity?

I went with my son to get his learner’s permit last year and brought his passport for ID. Not good enough!! He’s free to enter and leave the country and various foreign security checkpoints, but cannot get his learner’s permit. The Registry of Motor Vehicles requires at least TWO forms of ID, so I came back with his birth certificate, social security card, AND passport. Of course, to get the passport in the first place, he had to show his birth certificate, etc.

Never mind, it’s Massachusetts.

When I was 16, I opened a bank account. I gave them my birth certificate. Then I used my account card as ID for other agencies. Now, at 36, my entire identity (passport, driver’s licence, credit cards, tax file number, etc) is based on that day twenty years ago when a teenager wandered into a bank with a document that doesn’t even have an address, let alone a photo or signature.

[Penchan]

@ratatoskK

Have you ruled out stupidity?

I went with my son to get his learner’s permit last year and brought his passport for ID. Not good enough!! He’s free to enter and leave the country and various foreign security checkpoints, but cannot get his learner’s permit. The Registry of Motor Vehicles requires at least TWO forms of ID, so I came back with his birth certificate, social security card, AND passport. Of course, to get the passport in the first place, he had to show his birth certificate, etc.

Never mind, it’s Massachusetts.

Well then there’s A LOT of stupidity going on at Safeway since all of the cashiers have insisted that it is Safeway policy now to not accept passports as proof of birthdate.

It doesn’t make sense though! I also had to bring my birth certificate, my social security card and my state ID (before it was stolen along with my wallet) in order to get my passport. So doesn’t that mean that a passport would be superior ID, at least concerning identity, birthdate and citizenship?

And if the cashier had bothered to look inside, there are many stamps from other countries basically okaying my passport and allowing me entry. There’s also my visa into China that’s stapled inside the pages. Do you know how hard it is to get one of those!?

Oh well, I suppose that the corner liquor store (that doesn’t card) will get my business instead since my passport isn’t good enough for Safeway.

[JediMaster]

“If they’re in the states, why would they be using a US passport?”

I am American but don’t live there. When I visit the US, I always have my US passport with me - since my locally issued Driver’s license does not have my birthdate on it.

But I have never, ever seen a passport in person (I’m 27).

I can’t imagine someone being 27 and never seeing a passport. Shocking.

[ZipperJJ]

@JediMaster

I can’t imagine someone being 27 and never seeing a passport. Shocking.

Why? I’ve never had a chance to leave the country, other than to Canada. And I haven’t been since pre-9/11 so I didn’t need a passport. When I worked in retail, I was 16 and couldn’t check IDs anyway.

So why would I need to see a passport?

[groman]

@ZipperJJ

So why would I need to see a passport?

Umm I don’t know, curiosity? I know what military IDs look like and I’ve never been in the military. I know what a naturalization certificate looks like and I’m not yet a citizen. I know what a US Marshals badge looks like (a golden five-pointed star in a circle), and I know roughly know what an FBI ID looks like, yet I do not work for the federal government. I know what Chinese, German, Japanese, Israeli, Russian, Ukrainian and Romanian passports look like because I’ve run into people bearing them and said “Ooh, neat, may I see?”

The question is not why you need to see a passport, the question is why wouldn’t you?

[arashiyamato]

I ran into an unpleasant situation earlier today.

As background information, I am an Asian America in my late twenties, living in California.

Today, I went over to Whole Foods to purchase a light alcoholic beverage (Samuel Smith’s Organic Cider, to be specific). When I went to the check-out isle, a lady in her mid 40’s shouted loudly, “You will need your ID sir!” She stated this belittling request as though I was guilty, and not going to get away with purchasing alcohol.

I handed over to her my driver’s license and she looked back and forth several times. “You’re not 29, probably not even 19!”

“How old do I look?” I asked.

“Twelve,” she responded.

Okay, that’s my ID, I was thinking. Is she going to give it back to me? I smiled and stated, “Well, I don’t know what to say. Are you going to sell me the drink?”

Afterwards, she rung the manager up and he asked me a few questions, as to test my age. I have a polo shirt and look like a fair working professional. It was 1pm, high-schoolers would have probably be in school. Besides, teenagers would prefer Coors Light or Budweiser? I don’t know, they could have asked better questions, like, “What’s your major?” or "Have you tried ____ (a drink older people would know)?

I was sort of offended. I almost felt like insulting her. At least I wasn’t in my 40’s earning less than 10 bucks scanning groceries at Whole Foods. As a web developer, I probably made 4x her wage.

It was sort of a drag, but I had to mildly play more aggressive if they were going to take this seriously. And so I raised my tone and spoke more directly and manly. All of this, wasn’t necessary; I could have just walked out without purchasing the hard cider. But I found it to be the only since I needed a drink from a long day of work.

For some reason, they entered all of my data on the computer. What’s up with this? And so, after 10 or something minutes, I walked out with my drink. There were also dozens of shoppers having to go to other lanes to check out their food and what not.

In all, it seriously makes me not want to drink. Maybe it’s an omen? The same with dating gals. All the gals think I’m too young and they treat me like I don’t know anything. Must I prove to people? Must I dress in a certain way? Must I have to play out a stupid role that’s not myself? I’ll probably won’t even quality for the senior discount at restaurants when I’m 90. Damn, it really sucks! :smack:

[HazelNutCoffee]

arashi, let me point you to the appropriate thread.

[jabiru]

@groman

Bah sounds like a misunderstanding. Perhaps FOREIGN passports could not be accepted but it would be ridiculous for a retailer to not accept widely available federally issued IDs such as passports, military IDs and greencards.

By this reasoning, foreign travellers to the US wouldn’t be allowed to buy so much as a glass of wine. I don’t have a US driver’s licence or any other form of US-acceptable identification but I’d assume if I were to fly there tomorrow, my valid passport would be identification enough to prove my age and legality to buy alcohol.

[Giles]

@susan

Just adding that to buy liquor at a duty free, you must show a passport.

That probably depends on whether you are land-side or air-side of immigration and customs – though it might be a rule in the U.S., where duty-free seems to always be land-side.

[Monty]

Of course the foreign passport is acceptable identification. There’s not even an issue of language as the foreign passports also include the information in English. What the OP and some other posters have encountered is your basic average moron.

[Martini_Enfield]

@jabiru

By this reasoning, foreign travellers to the US wouldn’t be allowed to buy so much as a glass of wine. I don’t have a US driver’s licence or any other form of US-acceptable identification but I’d assume if I were to fly there tomorrow, my valid passport would be identification enough to prove my age and legality to buy alcohol.

I’ve never had anyone in the US ask me for ID when I’m buying alcohol there; although to be fair I’m clearly over 21 and usually in touristy places anyway.

If you have a look at the Official Rules about what constitutes acceptable ID for purchasing alcohol and smokes in Queensland, you’ll see that some obscure Victorian ID card almost no-one has (the Keypass; in all the time I worked in hospitality I only ever saw one) is OK, but a military or police ID isn’t. Until a couple of years ago foreign driver’s licences (even ones from NZ, the US, Canada, or the UK, with photo and date of birth on them) weren’t officially acceptable ID either.

[Crazyhorse]

By now (6 years later) the OP probably isn’t getting asked for their ID anymore when buying booze.

But for posterity, the problem was that until a couple of years ago California code 25660 required a physical description in addition to photo (height, weight, eye color, etc.) Drivers licenses have that information but passports and military ID’s don’t. Foreign passports do usually have such a description and so they were acceptable. The California law was changed in 2009 specifically to allow US passports and military ID’s. (PDF)

[Colophon]

I’ve heard that to buy alcohol in zombie bars you have to be 210 years of age, but they card you if you look under 300.

Related to this, the first time I went to the USA I was 25. I carried my British passport with me and used it when I was asked for ID to get into bars, with no problem at all. (The second time I went I was 31 and nobody asked me for ID )

[DrFidelius]

When I buy supermarket beer I am always carded. I understand that this is not to prove that I am legal to make the purchase; it is a check on the cashier to prove that she/he is making a legal sale. It would otherwise be too easy for one of these kids to ring their high-school friends through with all the Milwaukee’s Best they can carry.

[The_Great_Cornholio]

@jjimm

I had a major problem with this in Indiana in the early 1990s: at that time British driver’s licences didn’t have photo ID on them, or date of birth. And the bouncers on the door of the bars had no idea what they were looking at. Most of them just took my word for it. IIRC, one of them asked for photo ID so I gave my passport and that was acceptable.

I still only have my paper driving licence with no photo! When I was 18 over there and presented the licence as ID to get into a music venue, it totally bamboozled the doormen, and they stamped my hand so I could buy alcohol, even though it plainly stated my DOB on it. I didn’t put them right

[jabiru]

@Monty

Of course the foreign passport is acceptable identification. There’s not even an issue of language as the foreign passports also include the information in English. What the OP and some other posters have encountered is your basic average moron.

I completely believe you. I didn’t believe the comments of the poster I quoted, hence my reply to him/her.

[DCnDC]

Here’s an interesting and bizarre phenomenon I’ve encountered several times at different stores: I go up to the counter with some beer or wine or liquor, they ring it up and give me the total without asking for ID, but if I then ask for cigarettes, THEN they want to see ID.

[aruvqan]

@TheLoadedDog

When I was 16, I opened a bank account. I gave them my birth certificate. Then I used my account card as ID for other agencies. Now, at 36, my entire identity (passport, driver’s licence, credit cards, tax file number, etc) is based on that day twenty years ago when a teenager wandered into a bank with a document that doesn’t even have an address, let alone a photo or signature.

I got my first passport on the basis of my mother and a birth certificate. I was 5 years old. She didn’t want to have me put on her passport, or my dad’s passport. I do know that I used that passport to get my second passport, and I used my second passport to get my learner’s permit for NY, and my third passport. I do remember when I got my second passport, they were still accepting a birth certificate and a parent or guardian’s word that you were that kid.

[BwanaBob]

@JRDelirious

Gets even more complicated. Check this out. So in Colorado, a passport’s** *not * ** good enough. Neither is a Birth Certificate from Texas or Puerto Rico ( what, nobody with a “foreign sounding” name is ever born in any other state? I know part of our problem is a catch-22 situation: since every time the fakers break the security features in our papers and seals, we change them around, nobody’s ever sure what IS the current “real” certificate…)

The passport does NOT necessarily “trump all other ID”: there is NO statute compelling all state governments or all private parties to accept the passport as prima-facie proof of identity in** ALL ** circumstances . Part of the problem is, as mentioned, that it does NOT show your permanent address. part of it is that the Passport Office did not (not sure if under PATRIOT they have stiffened the rules) do too thorough of a “background check” on the personal identifying information submitted. The Passport’s primary function is to tell other governments on behalf of the US government: “Yeah, he’s one of ours”; it’s an immigration document, not a national ID card.

That’s ridiculous. Where you live is irrelevant. One needs a birth certificate to get a passport, and the issue at stake here is one’s age, not one’s place of residence.
So for age documentation purposes, a passport should trump all other forms of ID, since birth certificates do not come with photos, (which would be stupid anyway, since we don’t look like infants anymore).