What are the forms of acceptable identification?
(1) Per RCW 66.16.040, following are the forms of identification that are acceptable to verify a person’s age for the purpose of selling, serving, or allowing a person to possess or consume alcohol:
(a) Driver's license, instruction permit, or identification card of any state or province of Canada, or "identicard" issued by the Washington state department of licensing per RCW 46.20.117;
(b) United States armed forces identification card issued to active duty, reserve, and retired personnel and the personnel's dependents, which may include an embedded, digital signature in lieu of a visible signature;
(c) Passport;
(d) Merchant Marine identification card issued by the United States Coast Guard; and
(e) Enrollment card issued by the governing authority of a federally recognized Indian tribe located in Washington, if the enrollment card incorporates security features comparable to those implemented by the department of licensing for Washington driver's licenses.
(2) If the identification document has an expiration date, a person may not use the document after the expiration date to verify his or her age.
Wasn’t there a Sex and the City epiode where Samantha dumps the short guy when she finds out he buys his clothes from the Boy’s Wear department at the store? Looks are everything…
Really, my 92-year-old stepmother got carded when my 88-yo dad ordered a beer in the restaurant at a mid-west airport (they checked his ID too!). Seriously, “sorry, those are the rules”. She’s sitting with him, she did not order her own drink, he ordered alcohol, must check her ID too. Just in case she sips his beer… Ah, the joys of age discrimination - can’t just pick on the ones who “look” under 18. (Oh, yeah, it’s 21 not 18 in the “land of the free” isn’t it?)
In the late 1960’s my French teacher, fresh off the boat from France, complained that you could buy alcohol at the LCBO with a plain paper drivers’ license filled in by typewriter in those days, no photo, but many places would not accept a French passport with photo, embossing, metal foil crest, etc. (in the days before fancy printing equipment was readily available).
My brother, who was 18 but looked 14 at the time, used to lend his ID to his buddy to buy their liquor - a thyroid giant who was 6’2" and looked 20yo instead of his actual 15yo. It was less hassle than arguing that this really was his ID.
ID laws are stupid, but modern tech is so ingenious and there are so many possible ID’s with 50 states, 10 provinces, armed forces, etc. - that unless you keep a reference book, what are you going to do?
IIRC a few years ago there was a stink in Canada about bars photographing ID when they admitted patrons; mainly as a CYA technique, but also the question was what else did they do with that data? So easy to set up a web cam and laptop - plop the ID down and snap a picture in 2 seconds. Should a bar be allowed to keep proof that you presented apparently valid ID?
It seems like the person who I.D. you was uncomfortable with passports being valid. The thing with servers/bartenders/cocktail waitresses, they can refuse I.D. if they do not feel comfortable serving you alcohol but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are not valid. The first thing you should do is ask for the manager.
Certain establishments may also have a trouble determining which I.D’s are considered valid as well. Some places will refuse military I.D. because I believe it doesn’t have personal address or place of camp they were placed in. If they do then I apologize.
Just remember, a server or bartender is allowed to use the right to not serve you if they do not feel comfortable serving but that doesn’t mean you can’t ask the manager (in a polite manner).
Ohio’s law exempting cashiers and servers from personal consequences for underage sales if they check ID only allows “a driver’s or commercial driver’s license, an identification card issued under sections 4507.50 to 4507.52 of the Revised Code, or a military identification card issued by the United States department of defense, that displays a picture of the individual for whom the license or card was issued and shows that the person buying was then at least twenty-one years of age.” So a cashier or server would have a pretty good reason to not accept a passport (or, it seems, a non-driver ID card from another state).
Some people have a US passport but don’t live in the states. Some people have lost their state ID and haven’t gotten their new one yet. etc etc. I’m sure it’s possible to think of many scenarios. Basically, people are paranoid of the unusual.
Not entirely true. You can get a passport issued under other than your legal name. I have one. My original one was issued in 1964 and I had to get a notarized statement from two people that I was the same person. The only two people still alive who did were my parents, but that was acceptable. Since then I have gotten new passports regularly based on the old ones.
Since here in California I can use a passport to obtain a DL but I can’t use a DL to obtain a passport, I stand by my comment.
Reply With Quote
I look younger than my age, and I used to have a New Hampshire driver’s license. Back in the mid-2000s, New Hampshire did an unbelievably bad job of printing these things - shoddy lamination, slightly off-center, etc. Even a perfectly legitimate license looked fake. So, at 25 years of age, not only was I getting carded, I had bouncers accusing me of trying to pass a fake ID. One guy even took my license and refused to hand it back until I offered to ask a cop to look at it.
So, I started taking my passport to bars. Eventually, I started looking old enough that bouncers would believe the NH license, and I carry a DC license now - but at one time, I had an excellent reason for using my US passport for ID in US bars.
Out of curiosity, what are the rules for establishments and their legal liability if they accept a form of ID (drivers license, passport, etc.) that looks completely legitimate, and make a good-faith effort in checking their veracity, but later turns out to be fraudulent? How far is the establishment supposed to go in terms of verifying the legitimacy of the document and person using the document?
I suppose most places aren’t going to want to deal with these kinds of legal issues, so will err on the side of caution, but I have no idea how far their responsibility goes, and what kind of defenses are available to them.
I can’t precisely remember how the question arose, but when I was getting a new driver’s license some time ago, a local county DMV employee told me that soon only valid passports would be accepted as ID, not expired ones. Even though expired ones still attest to date of birth. Has anyone else heard anything like that?
I’ve had bartenders not accept expired drivers licenses around here. In fact, that’s how I found out my last one was just about to expire. I assume it’s to prevent it from being just permanently given/sold to another similar looking person to use as ID. Just a WAG.
ETA: Although, I guess it really wouldn’t matter, as you can “lose” your ID if you wanted to use it in that way, I suppose.
I have been using my passport as my primary ID for the past two a half years. I don’t drive and I move often, so after my previous ID expired I haven’t had any real reason to cough up $20 and spend an afternoon at the DMV to get a new one.
I haven’t had any problems yet in any state buying alcohol in restaurants, supermarkets or liquor stores. Indeed, I’ve only heard one or two comments about it over the years.
I’ve worked in restaurants for years and this argument drives me crazy. I know it’s frustrating from the standpoint of trying to buy liquor but he agencies that control things like Passports, immigration and travel are not the same as the agencies who regulate the sale and consumption of alcohol in various states.
In California alcohol sales rules and regulations are set and enforced by ABC the Alcoholic Beverage Control, they set their own standards for what is and isn’t a valid ID and it has nothing to do with any other agency like the military, department of immigration, the DMV etc. In California up until December 2009, ABC considered a valid ID to be one that has not only a photo and a birthdate, but also a physical description written on the ID. Eye Color, Hair color, weight, height etc. If an ID didn’t have those it wasn’t considered valid, and since Passports and Military IDs don’t have those, they were not acceptable for buying alcohol.
California has since amended its laws to allow Passports and Military IDs, but that rule was in place for a long time and a lot of places don’t realize the law has been changed, and I’m sure other states have similar laws that may or may not allow for Passports and Military IDS…
But form the standpoint of “Well a passport can get me into the country it should get me liquor”, the two aren’t controlled by the same agencies and the same laws do not apply. Also it may seem like a drag but restaurants face really serious penalties if they are caught serving alcohol to people without proper ID, fines and loss of a liquor license included and especially for small restaurants they could be put out of business.
Yeah its a hassle, but honestly if you don’t like the law, petition the people who control your state’s alcohol consumption, the restaurant is just trying to follow the rules so they don’t get dinged, serving someone a drink without valid ID can cost them thousands of dollars.
Your missing the point. Go back and read post 19. It’s not that the passport can get you in the country.
You can use a passport to get a driver’s license, but you cannot use a driver’s license to get a passport. (See post 19 for cites)
Why on earth wouldn’t a bike rider have their license with them? or is it a whoosh?