Similar situation at my nonprofit. We don’t offer competitive wages, especially for front-line shelter staff. Who wants to expose themselves to constant stress and vicarious trauma when they could get the same wage as a barista? It really bothers me. I don’t even think we’re that competitive as a nonprofit. We’ve done some things to try to improve the situation, but the real problem is wages, in my opinion. Unfortunately we’re being hit with massive federal funding cuts, so it’s a miracle we’ve been able to maintain employment for the people we have. This is a problem that’s been felt statewide by other DV agencies.
If people don’t want to work, it’s because of the low quality of options.
I can vouch for this, regarding my brother. Once he was on SSI, there is no incentive to get off it, and plenty of risk in trying. If he were to get a regular job, his state benefits disappear, and if the job didn’t work out (as was likely with him), he’d have to re-apply for everything and get in the back of the line. It could be months before his health benefits were reinstated. Too much risk, says he, and he’s right. I bet there are many like my brother and your friend who would love to get off public aid, and may be able, if the risks were not so high (as your friend eventually did).
People do want to work. But since unemployment is low, and they can get better jobs, they see no reason to work at crappy jobs, with low pay, no benefits, bad bosses, and terrible work environment.
Exactly. People want to work, they ARE working, they just dont need to take crappy jobs anymore due to low unemployment.
But he is disabled. that is different. and see my note above.
I know plenty of people who don’t really want to work, in the sense of if they could swing it, they’d retire early and just do what the heck they want to do for the rest of their lives. But very few of us can actually pull that off, so we’re all working because it beats the alternative of very low income, no insurance, etc…
As far as most of the “people don’t want to work anymore” crowd goes, it’s almost always someone who is grousing that people don’t want to do shit jobs for low pay, and who have this idiotic idea that there’s something noble or commendable about working in its own right, independent of how much you’re paid, how rewarding or enabling the job is, etc… They probably also subscribe to “hard work is its own reward” as a way of thinking as well. (as you can see, I do not)
I would also bet they’re a little stuck in the past in terms of what they think of as decent pay. I mean, Goodwill pays $11 according to the OP. There are probably a lot of late fity-somethings and older who think that’s a perfectly good wage for anyone, because their concept of what things cost and what people get paid solidified in about 2000, and they marvel at “how expensive everything’s become” now.
I’ve also known a few and known of quite a few more people who just sort of failed to launch, in that they just sort of scraped by in high school, had no post-secondary education plan, and have worked a long series of relatively low wage retail or restaurant work ever since, or sometimes laborer type construction jobs where they don’t need specific trade skills. I don’t know about not wanting to work, but their thought process and follow-through is definitely lacking in some fashion.
My husband got this when he decided he wanted to quit his job at a group practice and go into private practice. “Millennials just don’t want to work any more.”
No, ma’am, he just doesn’t want to work for you.
He has a very successful private practice now. And he works a lot!
I think if there is a shifting attitude, it’s in not seeing work as an intrinsic good. Millennials perhaps have a more transactional attitude toward work. Many including me and my husband would rather have less money and more free time. I don’t know if some Boomers are pissed off because they didn’t know they could do that, or what.
That should usually be translated as “no one wants to work for crap wages in deplorable conditions anymore”.
Minimum wage in my state is $7.25 an hour. Who can live on that? Meanwhile, there are jobs out there. Businesses trying to keep workers at $7.25 can’t because those people can go elsewhere and get, literally, twice as much an hour. Yet those business owners will bitch “no one wants to work anymore!” and state about the wage “that’s all the job is worth”. Well, buddy, if you can’t get anyone to work for what you’re willing to pay you either increase wages or you’re out of business.
My inlaws were both high school teachers. He retired when he was 52 and she when she was 55. They are now around 80. So, people haven’t been wanting to work for awhile now.
I’m 53 and my wife is 48. We could retire now if we wanted, but we don’t (I’m working on a multi-year project that will complete in 2029). We’ll retire when I am 60 (wife will be mid 50s). If it were up to my wife, we’d retire now.
Beyond that, I don’t know of any that aren’t working or that dropped out of the workforce.
It’s not that I don’t want to work. I’ll do my job, but I don’t have a great reason for doing more than that. I work overtime more frequently than I should and I produce solid work (because it’s more efficient than having to do it more than once), but I’m not going to bust my butt on the misguided notion that just the glimmer of possibility of earning more is going to make missing out on my actual life worthwhile.
My dad did that, and he died two years ago in a lot of debt. Workaholism isn’t a badge of honor, it’s often a sign that something is wrong, whether it’s in your personal life (as was the case with my dad) or in your professional life. If you have so much passion for what you do, you can’t help but work constantly, you are a special, unusual breed, and I salute you from my couch.
Early retirement has been brought up multiple times in this thread. 52 is considered early. Try to get Social Security benefits or Medicare at that age.
If everyone was able to retire at 52 and chose to do so, those lines would get a lot longer.
It’s been more than ten years, but I remember one such article that provided the helpful tip of buying a 15 dollar chicken at the store to cut up into parts for you to cook at home with. Who the hell is buying a $15 chicken?
Not counting retired people, I only know of one person who chooses not to work and she’s a stay at home mom.
For the record, I am fully on the side of this being the situation. I am just trying to collect some anecdotal data to see if there’s a huge number of people I’m not seeing who fit the imaginary scenario that the grousing line-waiters and restaurant owners are thinking of.
Personally, I was thinking that there were more people leaving the workforce for childcare reasons but seeing answers in this thread, I had completely forgotten the early retirees.
Also the not-so-early retirees who didn’t quite plan on retiring right at 65 or right at eligibility, but after covid they were like “fuck it.” I actually know a couple acquaintances who went that route.
I’m sorry to hijack, but this kind of language is hurtful. I am sure you didn’t mean anything by it, but the need to specify that the children are adopted as opposed to biological feeds into the belief that adopted children aren’t “real” children, just second-best substitutes.
I grew up in an era where being adopted was faintly scandalous - a time when lots of adoptive parents kept their child’s adoption a secret, often with negative consequences when the child found out the truth and felt betrayed.
As much as I resent a lot of the parenting I was subjected to, one thing my parents did right was to never make me feel like a second class member of the family because I lacked genetic ties to everyone.
We need to treat adoption as a completely natural condition, not worth remarking on unless there is a specific reason. Would you feel compelled to write, “My daughter gave up a pretty good paying job to be a stay at home mom to her 3 blue-eyed kids”? Or her “3 left-handed kids”?
As you are now a grandparent to adopted kids, I hope you’ll take my comments as they are intended - not to be antagonistic or unkind, but to be taken very seriously in terms of how you view your family relationships.
Childcare is a big piece of this. There is a national childcare crisis. I experienced part of it myself. The issue is that childcare workers deserve to be paid more but parents can’t afford to pay them more, they can barely afford to pay the current rates. For many, many people it makes more sense to have one parent stay at home than to pay for child care. When I was a part-time employee making well above minimum wage, my paycheck went entirely to childcare. I just worked for my own sanity.
When I was promoted and received a significant pay raise, it wasn’t this magically great thing. It created significant pressure on our household because now we had to pay for full time childcare and the childcare responsibilities had to be split more evenly, and well, then it turns out our son has a disability, and dealing with that logistically is a part-time job in and of itself. I gained revenue as my husband lost it. If my husband had a 9-5 job with no flexibility, I would not be working right now. The only way it was possible is because he can choose, within reason, the number of clients he sees and when. But that came with lost income. So me taking the promotion was actually a financial wash. The one good thing it gave us was guaranteed income, as I am salaried and he is self-employed, so any time he takes off (sickness, vacation, arranging therapy for our son) is lost revenue, but we can rely on my income no matter what.
If I had a full-time 9-5 job with no flexibility, I would not be working right now. It is through sheer fortunate circumstances of us both having flexible and remote positions that we have been able to both work and get done what’s needed for our son. And we both earn a lot more than minimum wage.
Someday … I really want to understand why raises aren’t (a) more freely given without being asked for and (b) still hardly aren’t ever given even when asked and good supporting information is given. Annual Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA) should be close to universal in dang near all professional full-time work.
But I know … profits! The money’s just not there! Can’t afford it! Whatever.
At the nonprofit work I work, we got COLAs every year until COVID hit. There was a year or two where we just got small bonuses. I think we got another COLA last year.
Nonprofits are a slightly different situation, though. Often funds received are earmarked for a specific purpose, which makes figuring out how to spend money a logistical puzzle. I’m frustrated we aren’t paying certain employees more but I’m also looking at the budget, how the funds are restricted, and all those headaches, and it’s not as simple as we don’t care enough.
I am proud that she adopted three children and I adore the three of them with all my heart. I could not love them more. The fact that they are adopted is not a secret from them, but it’s also not a topic that comes up often at all.
I promise they are not treated any differently than biological kids, which my daughter could not have.
I think the main reason I brought it up in this thread was because they do get some income from the state because they were wards of the state before we were blessed with them.
Please don’t think badly of me. I promise this isn’t an issue. These kids are so loved and adored and spoiled and wonderful and beautiful. I could not imagine my life without them.
To add some additional detail, COVID was a big motivator to pursue music. I had planned to really focus on music after I retired, but when when COVID hit I decided that if there was anything I wanted to do I needed to be doing it now.