I’m putting this in IMHO because I figure many opinions will be offered.
My point is not to argue about this, but just to ask.
I understand why parents would be upset at their children joining another religion. What I don’t understand is the attitude that Jews who become Christians aren’t Jewish any more.
I hope I have this right. If I don’t, just put it straight. I guess this comes down to that old question about what exactly makes a person Jewish, or a Hebrew, and what those words supposedly mean specifically.
Why aren’t these people simply Jewish Christians, like there are so many black Christians, Caucasian Christians, etc?
For the same reason vegetarians cannot also be meat-eaters. They’re two different things. Judiasm is a religion. Christianity is a religion. If you subscribe to one of these religions, by definition, you do not believe in the other one.
That said, there is an organization called “Jews For Jesus”, but they’ve always come across as a bit… I dunno, cultish to me. But I’ll admit, I only have a passing knowledge of them, so anyone who knows more about them can feel free to call me on that.
Well, for one thing, Jews believe the Messiah is yet to come and has not made his appearance on the earth yet. They don’t deny Jesus lived, but that he was simply a very good/persuasive teacher.
Christians believe that Jesus WAS the Messiah.
Jewish Dopers - if I have this wrong, please feel free to correct me. I can’t say I’ve ever heard of the “black Christian” or “Caucasian Christian” labels you provided.
So then Jewish people are by definition religiously observant ones? That’s not how I’ve heard it used, and I’m 33. Even the people who don’t know where a synagogue is still get called Jewish.
However, since Jews have lived as minorities inside other societies for almost two thousand years, “Jew” has gotten another meaning, which is that of race or ethnicity. Atheists and agnostics will refer to themselves as Jews if they were born in a Jewish family. Using this definition, there can be, and are, Jewish Christians.
Using the term “Jewish Christian” will get you laughed out of any gathering whose collective IQ is higher than room temperature, though, so exercise caution.
The term “Messianic Jew” is used by some, Jews who have accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah. A link, with some testimonies.
As you might expect, many Orthodox Jews see these people as just Christians masquerading as Jewish, or worse, actively trying to delude other Jews. Another link
This, I whole-heartedly agree with. Let’s not forget that Christianity is basically a very successful branch of Judaism.
However, what separates a Messianic Jew from a Christian, when you get right down to it? Jesus was Jewish, so were the disciples. Was Simon Peter a Messianic Jew? A Jew who converted to Christianity in the 12th century, was he a Messianic Jew? Are his descendants? How about the 18th century? Fifty years ago? Ten?
Making the distinction between Christian and Messianic Jew invites thinking of Jews as a separate race.
There are two distinct, yet related, meanings of the word “Jewish.” Yes, Judaism is a religion, and it’s impossible to be a practicing Jew and a practicing Christian simultaneously, the same way that you can’t be a Moslem Christian or, for that matter, a Baptist Methodist.
However, Judaism is also a matter of birth and bloodline. Although it is possible to “convert” to Judaism (at least some forms of Judaism), the majority of Jewish people are defined as Jewish simply because their parents (or at least their mothers) are Jewish. This sense of being Jewish has nothing whatsoever to do with what beliefs a person has or what they practice, and in this sense it’s perfectly acceptable to say that somebody is a Jewish Christian in the same way somebody can be an Irish Christian or a black Christian.
Note, BTW, that I am not claiming that Judaism is necessarily a distinct ethnicity or that there is some definable genetic difference between Jews and non Jews (or “goyim” as we affectionately refer to them ;)). But it is true that for most Jewish people their sense of identiy as a Jew stems from the circumstances of their birth, and that cannot be changed no matter what religion they decide to follow later in life.
My grandmother, who is a complete atheist and doesn’t follow any religious practices whatsoever, considers herself to be Jewish because that is how she was born. She is not a practicing Jew, but she is Jewish nonetheless. Both of parents were born Jewish, as was I. When I was about 4 years old, my parents coverted to Christianity. We always considered ourselves to be Jewish Christians. As an adult, I decided to give up religion entirely and no longer consider myself to be a Christian. I still consider myself to be Jewish, however, in spite of the fact that I don’t keep kosher, go to synagogue, keep the Sabbath day holy, etc. I am Jewish because that’s what I was born and who I am, and nothing can ever change that.
Ironically, one of the great debates among early (New Testament-era) Christians was whether one had to be Jewish to be Christian—that is, whether converts to Christianity should be circumsized, follow Jewish dietary laws, etc.
As a side note, it should be pointed out that while a Jew who “converts” to Christianity is still technically Jewish, in many area of Jewish law, he is treated as if he is not Jewish.
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