I think there’s been a shift though. If you go back 20-30 years, both parties were somewhat equally biased & partisan in how they answered these types of questions. But during the Trump era, this has changed, to where the Republican bias is now about 2.5 times stronger than Dem bias.
I think that’s not the entire explanation obviously. There was a burst of inflation, and there remains angst among voters about the economy. But there’s also an underlying bias in surveys/polling that naturally hurts Dems when one of their own is in office.
I think you and others have convinced me that it’s important to “listen” to people’s individual concerns, even when they run counter to macro-trends. But I think people like you need to listen to those of us who are sounding the alarm about a shift in partisanship thinking in the country. I think it’s an indicator of the radicalism on the right.
Ok, but that’s not a problem that’ll be solved between now and November. Economic messaging to people who consider the economy to be bad HAS to be solved before November or else Biden is going to lose.
It doesn’t seem to matter here, people just have their minds made up and none of our personal experiences amount to anything. I would never in a million years vote for any Republican, and am pretty far to the left, but I just don’t see very much improvement from Biden on this issue.
I’m going to throw another idea out there, one I’m sure many will say in invalid because (insert facts and stats here) but anyone who is familiar with advertising knows that a catchphrase can influence Americans like 100 political speeches cannot.
“Well, there you go again.”
“Are you better off than you were four years ago.”
“Read my lips, no new taxes.” (Used against Bush)
“Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”
Whenever anyone comments on high prices, the comment is “Bidenomics”.
I think part of the problem is that people are globalizing the inflation but personalize the wage gains. Prices going up broad economic issue that affects every American, and Biden should have done something that would make it go back down. On the other hand the large raise they just got was due to their own hard work, and their employers largess, and has nothing to do with Biden. So while I might be OK thanks to my recent wage increase, other people didn’t get a wage increase and still have to deal with the high prices that still haven’t come back down.
I think pretty much every economist that’s not associated with a conservative media source is already talking up how well things are going. The problem is that economists are boring eggheads so nobody is listening. The Biden campaign could try to put out ads featuring these economists but then they instantly become associated with the Biden campaign, and so suspect.
The people whose job it is to do this, along with everyone on this thread realize its a problem, but it is not an easy one to solve. At this point blaming Biden about is like blaming the coach of a football team that down by 14 for not realizing that they isn’t going to win unless he considers finding a way to score more points. All they are doing is passing the ball and running the ball which clearly isn’t working.
If they say, yes we realize that the economy is problematic, but we have a plan to make things better, then the obvious question is, well then why haven’t you already implemented that plan? The answer of course is that we have implemented it, and it has been working like gang busters, but that apparently is equated to ignoring the perceived plight of those who think the economy is in the shitter.
The only way to win is to somehow convince people of the truth that the economy is not in fact in the shitter. To do otherwise basically concedes that Biden is powerless against the economy and has no plan so you might as well vote for Trump.
Again, the “charts and graphs” are things like jobs, wages, 401(k)s, the number of people with medical insurance.
This is another bizarre thing about this; an insistance that all the good news is just abstract, and can be handwaved. Who cares if people have high-paying jobs, have you seen the price of eggs!?
And note that this is for the first time ever – this administration is the first time suddenly we don’t care about all of the headline details of the economy. A lot of people have the perception that the economy was good under Trump, based on the “charts and graphs” of his first 3 years, which were often touted.
Now those numbers are objectively better, let’s ignore them.
And now it’s 3.4%; it was a brief spike. Just like unemployment spiked at 15% during the pandemic.
The economy has recovered incredibly well from both (no, most prices didn’t deflate back down, but that would be disastrous for the economy, what happened is the ideal case of salaries and investments more than exceeding the inflation).
Right but, as you note, prices never deflated so they’re still high. Sure, massive deflation would be bad but people looking at expensive stuff is still politically poison. “When Trump was president, this cost $3, now it costs $4.75”
Wages increased but they didn’t increase evenly for everyone. But (practically) everyone notices that milk & eggs or a dinner out (or rent, insurance, cars, etc etc) costs substantially more than it used to and that’s the problem Biden needs to deal with. And, for a number of people who DID see wage increases, they see that increase eaten by increased prices instead of “Woohoo, higher paying job! Lemme buy a new TV and plan a trip”. They feel like they’re barely doing better than treading water.
People in this thread seem frustrated and mad that everyone won’t just look at their charts and start grinning but the world isn’t working that way so someone needs a Plan B.
It’s never the case everyone’s salary increases evenly. This is absurd.
Let’s put it this way because we need to start from somewhere.
Would you agree that it is not a “failing” economy, given that there’s record employment, record salaries, record stockmarket and record energy production?
And in turn therefore, that much of the rhetoric on the right calling it a failing economy, is disinformation, right?
I just want to believe we’re on the same planet here.
What’s absurd? I’m not saying that everyone’s wages SHOULD increase evenly, I’m saying that “But wages increased so why aren’t people happy with the economy?” has a simple and clear answer. People are going to be happy and optimistic about wage increases if (a) they got one and (b) now they can buy enough extra stuff to notice the wage increase. Those two conditions don’t apply to a lot of people but price increases apply to virtually everyone.
Nothing. I’ve said before that it’s a sucky position because Biden is very limited in what he can do:
I think much of the economy is fine and – again, as I’ve said before – Biden deserves ample credit for navigating it. It’s not a failed economy.
I’m not self-deluded into thinking that no one else can possibly think it’s not working for them without the Great Disinformation Brainwashing Cabal. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons on the micro level for voters to be dissatisfied and decide that they care more about their own budgets and if they feel they’re getting materially ahead than about some charts on a Tweet thread. I’m also not foolish enough to think that the solution is waving charts at them until they magically agree that they actually are content and now vote for Biden.
There are simply way too many people spending way too much money to support the narrative that everyone’s getting crushed by the terrible awful economy. The truth is quite simply that there’s an all-out Republican disinfo op to discredit Biden, and a bunch of chronically dissatisfied people with poor media literacy are eager to blame the current President for their dissatisfaction.
“buh buh that attitude’s not going to win you any votes, buster” ok perhaps, but neither do I see any advantage in pretending that the best economy in recorded American history is some kind of Biden failure, so it seems like the best plan is to stop apologizing for it and start bragging about it.
It’s telling that people don’t have a plan for Biden to come up with better messaging than telling the truth. That’s because the goal of this info op is to get people talking about anything except the truth. Talk about feelings, talk about the insensitivity of using aggregate stats to talk about an aggregate economy. Joe the Plumber is very sad, he can’t afford plumbing things, why are you so mean to him? Let’s talk about anything except what a fucking awesome job Biden has done in turning around a dumpster fire on the verge of collapse.
We can of course discuss whether this fixed inequality (it did not) or is everything they deserve (also no). But we measure policies based on what they change, and 12.1% wage growth - REAL wage growth over 4 years - is unquestionably fantastic performance.
Everyone who claims to care about poor people ought to be demanding 4 more years of Biden wage growth. Why aren’t they? Either they’re lying about their concern for the poor, or they’ve sleepwalked into believing the disinformation op.
Pretty sure that everyone participating in the thread is in favor of four more years of Biden. That’s not the question. The question is why Biden’s economic record isn’t motivating people TO vote for him. Some people assume it’s the result of a disinformation operation and other people are just “Huh. Well, that tracks”.
From about 1980 to 2019, yes the gap had widened greatly. However, since Biden came into office, there has been a wage compression, with larger real wage gains at the bottom and middle of the income scales. I had linked to that in my first post, and then again later.
I know we need for Biden to “listen to everyone’s concerns” and such. I fully support that. But for Godsakes, let’s at least admit to what has been accomplished in his term. He has enough headwinds blowing against him. He doesn’t need Democrats making him afraid to make a positive argument for his actual record.
It’s kind of hilarious that this article was even offered. More from it:
But in short, the rich currently feel rich and account for a large share of overall spending. The middle class feels a little better off too, and likely still has some savings built up they can burn through. They might not yet have felt the pressure of high interest rates and inflation to the same degree as people who rent and have fewer investments. (But that’s due to change.)
High-income consumers — households in the top 20 percent of income earning at least $244,025 before taxes as of 2022 — have been largely cushioned from economic headwinds and are flush with cash to spend.
[…]
At the same time, the factors currently fueling spending at the highest income levels aren’t universal. Not all consumers can afford to spend more.
Even though inflation has come down significantly from its 2022 peak, low-income Americans are struggling with higher prices. Consumers in general say they are budgeting more on everyday essentials like fresh produce and baby supplies.
Among people living paycheck to paycheck, pandemic savings (if they ever really had any) might be long gone.
Low and moderate-income consumers are also increasingly weighed down by credit card debt and struggling to pay it down due to high interest rates, which research suggests could be a major contributor to overall economic pessimism.
Well, there ya go! Just make $250,000 a year and/or run up your credit card bills (enjoy those climbing interest rates!) and you too can fuel this faultless economy with all your windfall spending and create more charts for Twitter
Thank you, I’m glad we have some common ground at least.
Two things;
Firstly, I wish you wouldn’t keep needing to resort to ad hominems against people who disagree with you. I’m not “self-deluded”, thanks.
Secondly, what’s the alternative here? One of the examples I’ve given is that US oil production is higher than it has ever been, and yet Republicans have been able to campaign on the idea that the “US is no longer energy independent”, and that it was under Trump. Many/most Americans accept this premise.
If it is not disinformation from RW media and politicians that have seeded this misapprehension, where do you suppose it came from?
Another ad hominem.
And this is very disingenuous to keep referring to it as “waving charts”. We’re talking about jobs, wages. 15 million people who didn’t have a job, and now have one. And fewer people who have a job being exploited because employees have choices now.
Why is that merely “charts” compared to the inflation data (which is actually pretty good now anyway)?
