You’re trying to move goal posts for the sake of argument. Again, the thread is about Biden getting traction from the economy and the answer is obvious. People are hurting financially due to higher grocery prices. They are reminded about it every week.
Also, people understand that Covid saw a massive exodus in employment. A great many of those who left were Boomers who just retired. High employment at a time when businesses are still begging for employees is a non-event. Nobody cares.
Trying to put a negative spin on the cancellation of a project that wouldn’t have been completed until 2030, had virtually no benefit to America and considerable environmental risk, and which had no effect on US oil supply or gas prices is mind boggling, particularly when compared to the sale of the US’s biggest refinery to the Saudis under Trump.
And given that, as noted, oil production is churning along happily at record highs, I see no reason why anyone reality-based wouldn’t take Biden seriously.
Something is certainly mind boggling here.
No country has ever produced as much oil as the US did in 2023.
People like me are critical of this because climate change is real and believe we need to be reducing carbon emissions.
But criticizing him on the other side of this makes no rational sense at all. Let alone in the context of people being negative about the economy: What a screw up under Biden, that oil production is only substantially higher than it was under trump, and more than the world has ever seen!
Your handwaving away of evidence that contradicts your position is noted, as is the tautology of your statement.
It’s a clear indication of where the Biden administration position is on oil production. Not only that, it keeps the oil moving by train which as we know is not the safest method of transportation of volatile products. There was no good reason to cancel the pipeline. The stink of it carriers over any impression people have on his position on oil.
For example, to economists, “recession” means that the economy overall (as measured by output, employment, etc.) is shrinking. But laypeople often use the term more loosely to mean “something feels bad about this economy,” such as high gas prices. This difference in usage might account for why a plurality or a majority of respondents — including nearly half of Democrats in that Harris-Guardian poll — believe we’re in a recession now, while almost no professional economic forecasters agree.
Likewise, when I’m scrolling through NextDoor and see a post from someone saying they’re looking for a job, a healthy percentage of the responses are “Good luck, my sister’s friend has been looking for six months and nothing” or “I’ve been on thirty interviews and no callbacks”. Of course we don’t know the circumstances of these people but no one is saying “I was unemployed but only for six minutes because the economy is so great”. And the people who DO offer job ideas have things like “third shift Amazon fulfillment center” which is a perfectly respectable thing to be doing but doesn’t give the impression of a vibrant job market. People come away with an impression that the job situation is dire regardless of the numbers. I think a lot of the mood on the ground is pessimistic and pessimistic people give negative survey answers. I don’t feel like a debate over what percentage of it is due to “misinformation” but the Biden campaign is going to have to swim upstream against that perception regardless.
But which do you think is more likely: that the bureau of labor statistics is just lying, at the same time as substantial manufacturing capacity has been added, I guess as the big con (just like millions of illegal voters, I guess).
Or that a couple of observations on next door isn’t the best way to determine the job situation overall and is subject to things like sampling error?
The record high levels of oil production are a clear indication of where the Biden administration position is on oil production.
The assertion that cancelling a pipeline that didn’t exist and wouldn’t have had any benefit to the US is proof that Biden hates oil production is just one of those false narratives the right-wing media have been pushing for years. There is no truth to it.
Sure - if you ignore both the existence of the current pipeline and the fact that the new one would have put the largest aquifer in the country at risk (again - for no benefit).
But if you think we should ban transport of oil by train as an environmental policy, you’re welcome to that position.
I gave you several in the post you quoted. Handwaving away evidence you don’t like again, I see.
A “stink” produced entirely by the false right-wing narratives I mentioned. It seems your argument is largely based on the view that the reason Biden isn’t getting traction on the economy is because the right are so good at spreading lies about it.
Who said that it was? The point is that people answer poll questions based on their mood, not based on Bureau of Labor statistics. Just like the quoted portion that people answer questions about a recession based on their mood and observations and not based on macroeconomic output numbers.
Do you think people spend more time on social media like NextDoor, Facebook, etc or reading Bureau of Labor reports?
Good luck with that.
I didn’t think you’ll have much of a chance of convincing @Jophiel or @Magiver that the economy isn’t a disaster. They’re here to spread anecdotes and propagate the message that the economy is bad so people will be demotivated to vote.
This thread is not about Biden and grocery prices. It is about the economy. As a whole. The whole economy. And people’s perceptions of the economy. As in, how is the economy of the country doing.
And many people percieve that we are in a recession. And that unemployment is high. And other economic indicators are poor. Yet these are not true facts.
Why do people believe these false facts about the country’s economy?
They report that THEY THEMSELVES are doing OK, but they believe THE ECONOMY of the country is doing poorly. They believe false things about economic indicators.
Why is this? Why do they believe unemployement is very high? Why do they believe that we are in recession? I don’t think “because grocery prices are high” is enough to explain what I have clearly laid out above.
I’ve said multiple times that the economy isn’t a disaster (and that many issues with it are out of Biden’s hands anyway) but that people have personal reasons to be pessimistic beyond the macroeconomic numbers.
People know their wages are reduced by higher costs. They don’t give fuck-one about how good someone tells them the economy is. Seriously, how hard is that to understand?
The point is we’re discussing the reasons that people are negative about the economy including believing disinformation.
Nextdoor cannot be a cause in itself, so you citing it I took to mean that you believe the job situation is bad. If not, why did you mention it?
In answer to your question, yes of course people on average spend more time on social media. And that’s a place where they’ll encounter disinformation.
With countering right-wing lies? Yes it is quite hard. They are exceptionally good at spreading them.
Once again, their income on average is up, after inflation.
Is there an associated pit thread for this discussion?
lolwut?
People read social media, people see other people on social media talking about issues their friends/family have had in finding work, people don’t talk about how great and easy it was to get a job == people come away with an impression that it’s hard to find work regardless of the actual labor situation. This does not require an organized disinformation campaign. Which isn’t me saying that organized disinformation doesn’t exist but it’s the not the single-source hobgoblin some of you cling to as the only answer.
Higher prices at the grocery store is not disinformation and it’s an issue every single week they buy food. They’re not listening to any disinformation you think is clouding their judgement about the economy.
It can’t be a root cause
You’re either suggesting the real job situation is bad, hence on average people say bad things on nextdoor et al, therefore people have a bad impression of the economy.
Or, if you accept the job situation is good, as the actual data shows…I don’t know what your point is meant to be. People are negative about jobs because they hear people being negative about jobs even though more people have positive job news?