Ah I missed it.
So OK, this is a poll of 1,000 people saying that they are worse off. Earlier, when presented with a Pew Research poll of 5,000 people saying they were better off, your response was "no one gives a shit about your poll”. What changed?
No it wasn’t. I gave multiple reasons that could help explain a discrepancy. I’ve linked to articles by outlets like Vox and the EPI explaining the discrepancy. It would be nice if you’d actually read stuff and respond to that instead of just pouting about it.
Very good. Further corroboration is required.
No I would not have to suppose that, as it’s the opposite of what I posted. The two silos have become distinctly separate, with factual information being reported (for the most part) in the left bubble, and outright lies, bullshit and increasingly insane conspiracy theories being reported in the right bubble. There is no mixing.
I know people who have completely given up on the news, because they don’t trust the media anymore and feel helpless when bombarded with story after story about bad things. So they are tuning it out and focusing on other things.
Those “other things” being nutty posts from facebook friends and “suggested sites” that are all full of disinformation. That’s my point. They have been segregated out of the factual news streams, and are now in the disinformation social medial bubble of bullshit.
Actually, looking at that Pew Research graphic again: The majority of Biden supporters in the poll wanted both candidates replaced as a specific condition. Only 2% wanted to replace Biden and choose someone else to run against Trump.
So, I can DQ that cite, though it was interesting. That is something I can agree with – that a lot of people do want both parties to present “better candidates”. That, IMHO, is not the same thing as “unhappy with Biden’s candidacy”. Others’ mileage may vary.
Excellent chance ChuckTaylor is also SyncoSmalls. Please flag any similar trolling posts in this thread if they pop up. Both have been cornfielded. Chucky was a sleeper sock.
Links are then provided…
(Emphasis mine, JohnT)
Crickets.
Then, in response to someone else…
I let this slide because, frankly, it wasn’t worth the effort.
But, well…
I know, right?!?!?
I quoted your exact words. So you can say you’ve said other things in addition, and sure, we’ve all said a lot of things in this thread. But don’t try to imply I am misquoting you.
It’s a different point to the thread topic. I mean, I would consider myself among those who would prefer a different candidate; he looks frail and I would prefer someone that could clap back more quickly and forcefully. I’m nervous about every interview.
But I also think he’s been objectively an incredible president by just about every metric, while Republicans have become so obstructionist that they block their own bills. And that the American economy is the envy of the world right now.
Congratulations on finding a job as a cherry picker in this economy?
You asked “what changed?” knowing full well that you were selectively quoting and that I wrote a ton of other stuff but now you want to get petulant? Ok then.
In any event, I’d addressed your precious gospel poll multiple times while you try to deflect anything else as “not enough people (only a thousand!)” or “too long ago” or anything else to avoid actually talking about polls that don’t fit your narrative.
Right. Because none of those were what I asked Mijin for: actual false figures about unemployment and that we’re in a recession. Unless we’ve gone from “disinformation” (i.e. actual lies) to “I disagree with this guy’s opinion and that jeweler’s sales of engagement rings (which was backed by other slowing in the wedding industry sector for that period) don’t match overall jewelry sales so that’s misinformation” (Amusingly, the engagement ring factoid wasn’t even directly “the economy sucks” but rather about knock-on effects of the Covid lockdown on meeting potential partners)
I ignored them out of politeness.
Posts #591-601 above are true-enough Scotsmen. Nakedly-false figures about unemployment are not necessary to sell the idea that “unemployment is bad!”. Similarly for “we’re in a recession!” – bagging on “Biden’s economy” is essentially an “I’m not touching you!” game with falsehood. Misleading without lying is old hat for many outfits.
Sure and getting ever more fast and loose with what counts as the misinformation being talked about. Which is why that whole spur of conversation started with me trying to pin Mijin down on what “misinformation” actually meant and led to his (temporarily) rage quitting the thread rather than ever giving a real answer.
If people are going to keep insisting it’s the primary driver of poor polling performance, we should be able to define it at least, right? One of JohnT’s examples is literally just a person saying that young people weren’t cheering “soft cpi prints”. That’s misinformation?
I’m honestly at a loss about what you’re talking about.
The issue now is supposed to be about defining misinformation? What?
And you’re saying I haven’t given examples of misinformation, I’ve given several.
If I post another one now, will you concede any point?
No, because I’m looking for what you’re actually considering misinformation, not just a scattered pile of stories you don’t like. So far, it seems like “Stories and reports, even if factually accurate, that I don’t think portray the economy in a glowing light”.
Does it seem like that? Is “unemployment is at record highs” factually accurate? Is blaming Biden for the global post-pandemic inflation spike?
Exactly. Who is saying that “Unemployment is at record highs”? Not the poll result (which I’m a little skeptical of regardless since they won’t share the actual question), who are the people feeding this false fact to the masses for them to repeat in a poll since I’m told over and over that misinformation is to blame for it?
It’s a long road from “Q1 engagement ring sales were down in 2023” and “Young people aren’t excited about soft cpi numbers” to “We have history-making unemployment”.
But we can agree that, if someone is saying “Unemployment is at a record high” then that’s disinformation, right? So it that what’s driving the narrative? Is someone actually getting in the media and saying this besides Facebook memes from AmericaFirstPatriotTrumpLovers?
I think you misunderstand Jophiel’s self appointed role in this thread. It’s not to provide constructive observations and solutions. it’s to criticize others observations, explain why their proposed solutions won’t work and demand that they come up with better ones.
So, a voice that I respect has spoken about the economy vs politics question in this thread. His over-arching theme is “tell the truth”.
My favorite lines here:
Other survey data reliably shows that Republican economic sentiment is much, much more sensitive to partisan control of the White House than Democratic sentiment. Republican voters are trained by their media, or acculturated by their communities, to dissemble about their economic sentiments depending on who’s president—or, more generously, to feel so invested in who holds power in America that they lose touch with reality.
Every poll like this one from Monmouth will sweep in voters whose responses are tethered to facts, and others, mostly Republicans, whose responses are shaped by partisanship and tribalism. What we have here is evidence that Biden is fighting the issue to a draw despite that handicap. If people really just voted their pocketbooks, Biden would be winning handily. If Trump were to become president tomorrow, Republicans would experience catharsis, and economic sentiment would shoot above the waterline.
Political professionals should be able to see that coming miles away: Those same tribal poll responders will become big fans of the economy if Trump wins the election. They will outnumber their tribal opposites in the Democratic Party, and sentiment will invert before policy has changed at all.
Which means we know Biden doesn’t have a major economy problem—he has a Republican shit-talking problem.
If only someone had mentioned that point earlier in this thread…