You have made several ‘broad brush’ claims (the first quote above is an example of that.)
Where are your supporting cites?
It’s worth noting that “There’s a systemic problem with policing in this country,” and “UCBearcats is a fucking idiot,” are not mutually incompatible ideas.
You haven’t been reading the thread, have you? Look at what his posts where he “backs up his claims” look like!
Monty, I have never quoted you or attempted to quote you. So fuck off. I made a comment about a lack of issue where you are regarding cops and any issues. I never said you said it. You fucking assumed that I attributed it to you.
Steophan is part of the reason for this thread. All of his cops can do no wrong and nobody should stop them while they are working crap.
Thank you for your support.
Thank you to everyone for pointing out the error of my ways. If you want stuff you got to pay for stuff. Sometimes the stuff is broken, but it can still be better than no stuff. Thanks to the men and women who do stuff for us that need to be done.
Most? I don’t believe most cops in this country make over 100K. That’s ridiculous. Do you have a cite for that? And Moonlighting at Denny’s is paid for by Denny’s, not the tax payer. Niether is it factored into their pension.
You know what “shit that’s wrong in one direction” + “shit that’s wrong in the other direction” equals? A massive pile of shit.
Thank you to everyone for pointing out the error of my ways. If you want stuff you got to pay for stuff. Sometimes the stuff is broken, but it can still be better than no stuff. Thanks to the men and women who do stuff for us that need to be done.
Thank you to everyone for pointing out the error of my ways. If you want stuff you got to pay for stuff. Sometimes the stuff is broken, but it can still be better than no stuff. Thanks to the men and women who do stuff for us that need to be done.
No, I think there are huge problems related to law enforcement and criminal justice in this country. Huge. More on that in a second, but… first of all, not every agency in this country is unionized. Do you have a cite showing that agencies with unions are more corrupt than non-union agencies? Do you have a cite showing that more governments whose law enforcement agencies are unionized are being bankrupted by pensions than those governments whose LE agencies are not unionized? Do you have any actual evidence that unions are the cause of your concerns?
Now, with respect to problems with the current police culture in this country: Why do you think less pay, fewer benefits and reduced compensation is going to fix the quality of law enforcement officers on the street? Does that really make sense to you? If you want to affect real change, you need to increase the minimum qualifications, including education requirements. You need to increase the quantity and quality of training. And you need to increase the ration of cops to citizens by hiring more cops. At the very least, hire more Community Service Officers (or implement such a program if the agency doesn’t already have one).
But if you increase the standards to become and remain a police officer, you are going to need to pay them more in order to retain them. Higher education, more training, and improved professionalism costs more. I challenge you to find an example of any corporation that has been able to flat out decide, “We need to increase the standards and the quality of our employees” without also having to increase the salaries they paid out. Among the answer to getting better cops is to pay them more, not less. Also among the solution are the hiring increases and improvements to training as I mentioned. It’s going to cost more to hire more cops. Obviously. It’s going to cost more to train more cops. And it’s going to cost more to train your current cops better. And once you have all of these highly trained professional super-cops, you are going to need to pay them more if you don’t want them to leave and go to another agency. Oh, and you know what is an incentive to stay put at the current agency instead of leaving to go to another higher-paying city? You guessed it, that pension!
So, really, I just don’t see how you think reducing or removing the pension is going to make anything better. It’s going to make it worse. The turn-over rates among agencies is going to be ridiculous. You want a professional force, you need to hire professionals, train professionals and pay them a professional salary with professional benefits.
In general? Or only for public workers? Again, I don’t think you understand how compensation is supposed to work. You want happy, friendly cops walking the street, and you think you’re going to accomplish that by making them work Christmas away from their family with no additional compensation whatsoever? Good luck with that.
Well, my dad was a cop in a major city and my father-in-law was a firefighter in the same major city. Both of them worked that job and another to support their families. To the best of my recollection, we nor my husband’s family never lived extravagantly growing up and once they both retired, years apart, they never lived a life of luxury either. They are both deceased now, but they were both two of the finest men I ever knew. I have just become sick with all the cop bashing that goes on. The negative generalizations are not fair to a majority of men and women that put their lives on the line everyday.
I think that UC’s concerns are largely related to articles like these.
WaPo: Police Unions Are Forcing Chiefs To Rehire Criminal Cops
FIREDREHIRED
Police chiefs are often forced to put officers fired for misconduct back on the streets
Union Head: Reinstate Officer Fired Over Police Kick Video
Union demands reinstatement of indicted U. Cincinnati cop’s job
Pot-Shop Cop Reinstatement Gives Police Black Eye
These are situations where the police department is doing the right thing, it is firing the cops who are harming the relations with the community, but are forced to keep or rehire police that the police department feels are unfit for the job.
This is bad for community relations, when you know that even if the police department wants a cop off the job for their conduct, they will keep their gun and badge.
I don’t think UC has a problem with compensation, in other threads he has agreed with having even greater compensation for police. I think it is more a problem with the pension program and the ways in which it is manipulated in order to maximize lifetime payouts. Public pensions are a legitimate fiscal concern, and addressing them as a concern is not the same as wishing for police to be poorly compensated.
Pensions are a complicated and delicate subject. It does create a fiscal burden on the community for a period that is often much longer than the time spent working. They can cause cities to pull back on funding for other projects, or raise taxes, in order to continue to fund these pensions indefinitely. It is a fiscal concern, if you start work at 20, retire at 40, and collect your pension for 50 years, especially when many pensions also have pay-outs to surviving spouses or family, increasing that burden further.
As far as how to get people to work these jobs? Well, you hire them. People do more work for less in the private sector every day. The skills needed to become a police officer are not all that rare, and there are usually far more applicants for the job than there are openings. I would personally be for having a larger up front salary, and less generous pension, (maybe one that only paid out for as many years as were worked or something like that), which would allow them the option to invest their own funds into a private retirement fund, just like the rest of us.
Thank you to everyone for pointing out the error of my ways. If you want stuff you got to pay for stuff. Sometimes the stuff is broken, but it can still be better than no stuff. Thanks to the men and women who do stuff for us that need to be done.
Thank you to everyone for pointing out the error of my ways. If you want stuff you got to pay for stuff. Sometimes the stuff is broken, but it can still be better than no stuff. Thanks to the men and women who do stuff for us that need to be done.
The OP has gone full derp! Someone, quick, call a doctor!
What the fuck is your issue? I already said those are not your words. What more do you fucking want?
The “Broken Record” trick. I’m impressed.