Um, methinks that even if it involved nails, the victims suffocated in most instances. This is because the weight of the body pulling down kept the person from breathing. I don’t know the mechanics of it all.
Just as an interesting aside, this did not happen to Christ. Generally they would break the legs of the crucifee so they would suffocate more quickly, but Jesus was dead by the time this happened. They poked him in the side to see if he was dead, and water came out. Some people say this suggests that his heart exploded (thus fulfilling several prophesies from Psalms and Isaiah).
I was always taught that it wasn’t the crucifixion that was the really painful part, but that Jesus did the suffering for all our sins at Gethsemane. At that point he took upon himself the pain of all sin, as well as all sickness and suffering–so that every time you or I do something wrong, it adds to the pain he felt there (yes, depite that fact that it already happened). This was so painful that he shed blood from every pore of his body. He received the pain of sickness and so on as well, so that he could truly understand what every person goes through, no matter how bad it is–he’s been there too. Now, I’m LDS, and I don’t know if this is how other Christian religions interpret Gethsemane and the crucifixion.
And now I’m going to jump in on the lifespan debate too–it’s my understanding that if you survived infancy–past about age 5–then you were probably fine until adulthood. Women who made it past their 20’s and childbearing (a big hurdle) were then likely to live into their 60’s or even longer, but men would usually wear out in their 40’s or 50’s. This is just what I remember from what I’ve read, though.
Well, perhaps because Jesus was still young, handsome, single, very eloquent and a powerful speaker, they’d probably want to get rid of him as quickly as possible.
And the people thought, here’s this carpenter’s son who’s out making trouble! He should go and work with his father.
Here’s another LDS perspective. Genie suggested that if we sin more, then Jesus suffered more. I think that’s a common belief, but it isn’t really on target. LDS scripture at least describes Christ’s suffering as infinite. Luke describes the suffering in Gethsemane (the garden, the night before, where He sweat drops of blood) as begin in agony–that an angel came to Him from heaven to strengthen Him (Luke 22:43-44). He descended below all, and His suffering makes anything we feel look trivial by comparison.
Just dying earlier doesn’t mean that He didn’t suffer. I think that’s the most important part of the response to the question.
Those of us who accept Him as Savior feel that the important part is that what He did makes it possible for us to repent and be cleansed of our imperfections. He also provides the perfect example for us to follow–He submitted to all that was necessary that we might be freed from sin.
When you think about it, I find it hard to believe that non-Christians don’t respect more what Christ did. Anyone who gives his live and suffers like that to help others should be respected. I’m surprised also that more people don’t listen to what He had (and has) to say considering how He was willing to put His life on the line for what He was teaching.
Nothing really to add except maybe spur somebody to answer this .
I don’t know the bible or history of that time very well but for those that do , a question .
Is there much mention of the Apostles parents . Did the Apostles live for much longer after JC . If we’re going to take it as fact that JC was 33 then we should take all the other ref.'s to people’s ages as so . So all you religious/history buffs are there a lot of ref.'s to people older that JC in history/biblical works ?
Are you talking Bible as a whole, or just NT? Check out Genesis if you want to see people living to 900. Or the Babylonian myths for kings who reigned for tens of thousands of years. In the New Testament, there is very little about the age of the apostles. John is alleged to have written his gospel at the age of 90. He’s also alleged to have written it using a feather from the wing of an angel. Not very likely. There’s some mention of an 84 year old widow somewhere in one of the synoptics (Luke?). There are many legends and stories about the apostles; I’m sure many mention how long they lived. But it is unlikely that they have much more veracity than the story of John.
To Turpentine:
The belief about Jesus living to fifty is argued by Irenaeus in his Libros Quinque Adversus Haereses 2.22.5-6. It was actually argued by an Orthodox Christian, against the gnostics. Sorry for my misremembrance. The text can be found online here. Search for “fifty” or “infants” for the relevant passages.
The bit about fifty sometimes comes from a NT line of “Jesus, not having been yet 50” which confuses a lot of folks. The best guess is, that at 50, you were considered an “elder”, and thus JC died before he was an elder. The whole idea is that He dies in the prime of his life, instead of having led a long full life, when he had less to “give up”. True, living some 50 more years gives you 50 more years of pain, etc, but also 50 more years of happiness, and for most folks, it is a good trade off. If it wasn’t, why wouldn’t everyone just shoot themself at 40?
John, altho he likely lived to a ripe old age, and maybe 90, more likely dictated the 4th Gospel. The greek it is written in appears to be that of a well educated man, perhaps a scribe. Having John dictate the Gospel when he was on his death bed would account for the discrepencies. But, if as some have indicated, it was written completely from scratch by some guy who just took Johns name, then how did those small personal notes get in there? No, the source was clearly someone who knew JC intimately, and that was very likely John.
BTW, wasn’t the old concept of a year during Jesus’s time different from our concept of a year is now?
Besides, as someone said about non-Christians admiring Jesus, why not? I mean, forget all the miracles and folklore, the guy basically believed in treating people as you would want to be treated, helping out others and being a nice guy. I don’t see why that’s such a bad thing. And he was a pretty good friend-he hung around all the losers. If he had gone to high school today, he’d probably be every nerd’s hero, because he’d probably zap the jocks for knocking over the nerds’ books.
See, the Hebrew word for day actually refers to an era or period of time, rather than a specific 24-hour period. So, Jesus actually could have been billions of years old. It’s only those silly “Young Jesus” folks who insist that you believe that Jesus lived for literally 33 years.
No, it is not. The “Magic-time-travelling-sin” idea is not a part of Catholicism, for example, but they do believe Jesus’s sacrifice did open the way to redemption.
Can’t anyone see that death and hell is bad enough, even if it is just for a long weekend?
I heard somewhere that part of the reason he died so quickly was that one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, which was not normally done. This was actually an act of mercy by one of the soldiers who didn’t feel he should have had to suffer like that.
Infant mortality does not effect average lifespan, if a child dies before the age of two it’s counted as infant mortality and not used in calculation of average ages (otherwise in some cultures the life expectancy could conceivably dip into the single digits).
Actually, the soldier poked Jesus after it was thought he were dead. You might be thinking of the breaking of the legs. This would put all the weight on the arms, increasing the pressure on the lungs, and causing quicker suffocation.
The last sentence is odd. If Jesus bled immediatly you would think he were still alive. John goes on to explain that the piercing was done to fufill a prophesy.
This story is unique to John. In the synoptic gospels the centurion is there only to proclaim that Jesus is the son of God ( Matthew and Mark ) or that he is innocent ( Luke ). In John the centurion does not speak.
Hmm. “Believe that Jesus died for your sins and spent a few hours in Hell, or you’ll spend eternity in Hell” No, sorry. Doesn’t sound that bad to me at all. Especially when you consider that Jesus, in his omniscience, knew that he would be resurrected on the third day. Had there been some element of doubt–had he thought that his descent into Hell might be permanent–then maybe I’d be impressed. But when fundies try to convince me of the seriousness of Jesus’ suffering, all while insisting that I’ll suffer infinitely more if I don’t believe them, I tend to think that something’s majorly bass-ackwards here.
Badtz Maru
Nope. According to John 28:28-37, the soldier pierced Jesus’ side after he died. He did so to fulfill a dubious Old Testament prophecy, not as an act of mercy.
Which is why the magic-time-traveling-sin belief is pure folly. The person who suffers the longest for your sins is you, not some 5th-dimensional deity.
(not that I can talk. oh well. I’lll get out of here someday just pray I won’t die tomorrow.)
