He will see his offspring and prolong his days? Hmm… well, the fact that there are still Christians, and people are still talking about him kind of fulfills this if you aren’t too literal.
Well, there are still Teamsters around and they still talk about Jimmy Hoffa but it doesn’t make him the Messiah either.
Well, Hoffa might be part of a concrete reinforced beam in a skyscaper somewhere, but that doesn’t mean he’s really “risen” from the dead. There is more than one way to prolong your days.
Another thing with the offspring is, since there are multiply “he”'s in these verses, “his offspring” might mean Jesus was God’s offspring, not that Jesus would have ofspring.
Not that Isaiah would be the first prophesy to be written a little vague and open to interp.
Well sure, if you want to start twisting the meaning of words around and take things out of context, which is what Christianity is centered around. It would be one thing if Isaiah was refering to the Messiah here, which he isn’t when taken IN CONTEXT of the four Servant Songs found in chapters 42-53. But I digress, we’ll stick with the Christian interpretation.
The problem is the text’s meaning in Hebrew (ya’arich yamim) means a life that comes to an end, a mortal life. There is a different term in Hebrew when meant to refer to and extended resurrected life (l’chayai olam).
Multiple “he’s”? Ah, the truth by dangling participle! So one he refers to the Messiah, and one refers to God? And the rest of the “he’s” and “his”? Interesting thought. Makes no sense, but interesting none the less.
The verse:And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see seed, He shall prolong his days, and God’s purpose shall prosper in his hand.
The effector and the effectee seems perfectly clear to me, but I don’t need to be creative with interpretations.
Excuse me, but where did this come from?
Emphasis mine.
Jesus was not called by any name in the old testament. Jehovah AKA YHVH or Yahweh, at least according to the Catholic and Episcopal churches, is God the Father. Jesus is the son of God.
Is there any sect that believes that Jehovah and Jesus are one?
Um…just about all of them? Don’t forget about the Holy Spirit, too! But the statement that Jesus was called “Jehovah” in the OT was a bit misleading, I agree; Jesus was Jehovah in the OT (acc’ding to Christians), same as He was in the NT.
Not according to my indoctrination in the Episcopal church. Jehovah (God the father), Jesus (God the son) and the Holy Ghost may be three in one, they are three distinct persons.
I’ll have to read those chapters.
There was a word for that? How many people were walking around back then with “extended resurrected lives” that such a term would have been in the common parlance? What is the big difference? What does “prolonged” mean to you?
Oh, well if you but it that way, I saw seed when I had that Big Mac for lunch. 
Two all beef patties… well, you know the rest.
I’m not sure the trinitarian churches would exactly agree with this. The Son and the Father are not the same persons and never have been.
So, three separate person, but one…what? I have heard nearly everything used as an explanation for the nature of a triune God, from “masks” to 3-in-1 oil to “it is an ineffable mystery how three can be one”, so I guess I am a bit confused. I was assuming there was one God, just different aspects or manifestations. If Jesus is the One God, and Jehovah is the One God, and the Holy Spirit is the One God, is it wrong to say the Jesus is also Jehovah? In what manner is Jesus genuinely separate from Jehovah?
Gaudere
I’m prolly not the one to defend or explain the “divine mystries” since I don’t buy 'em. But as I recall, Jesus prayed to…Ummm… his father in heaven. So, to Jesus, there is an other to pray to. The whole three in one - one in three, trinity thingy was to make this consistent with there being only one god. I forget how the Holy Ghost is supposed to fit in.
Love, Lover, Loved. I forget which one is which though…
I don’t believe either, but I’d like to have at least a clue what’s going on with the 1+1+1=1 bit and the long, involved analolgy-ridden explanations I’ve been given so far seem to have been insufficient for my comprehension. I’ll spin off a thread. Probably not a hot Friday night topic, but maybe some Christian can enlighten me.
I remember that one. God the Father is the lover, Jesus is the beloved, and the Holy Ghost is the love. Sort of a parallel to a marriage. Actually an incestuous same-sex marriage if you think about it. It helps if you don’t think about it too much.
Amazingly, yes, there were terms for that.
*ya’arich yamim * A long life which eventually comes to an end as found in Deuteronomy 17:20, Deuteronomy 25:15, Proverbs 28:16, and Ecclesiastes 8:13
l’chayai olam An extended resurected life as found in Daniel 12:2.
Mmmmm . . . special sauce.
The best explanation I’ve heard for the Trinity is that of water in it’s various physical states, vapor, liquid and solid. While they are all H20, ice has different physical properties than liquid water. Water vapor has different physical properties than liquid water and ice, etc. In other words, each member is of the same substance, but each also has different roles and properties than the other. I’ve always understood it as God the father, Jesus the redeemer and the Holy Spirit the comforter. But that was back in my Christian days. I know better now. 
Unfortunately, the analogy of the trinity to ice/steam/water is called modalism and was declared a heresy in the 4th or 5th century. Three persons, one essence (as I understand the orthodox trinity).
As for Jesus=Jehovah, there are a few supporting verses, the most notable being John 8:58, Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
The “I AM” is precisely the same phrase as the one who spoke to Moses. The locals were so outraged by this “blasphemy” that they took up stones to kill him.
Since I’m LDS, I also draw on the Book of Mormon. There, the evidence for me is clearest, when Jesus says (after his resurrection):
Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end. (3 Nephi 15:5)
You’ll get no arguement from me. Of course, I consider all of Christianity and it’s numerous incantations to be a heresy, trinity or not.