For the past two or three weeks, the media has been in a frenzy about Roger Clemens surpassing 300 Wins. Now, I understand that 300 wins, though an arbitrary number, is a pretty big deal. But I didn’t even know he was close to breaking 4000 strikeouts until I saw this morning that he did both on the same night. Why wasn’t there any mention of 4000 Ks before this morning? To top it all off, they almost mention the 4000 Ks in passing. On ESPN, they have a short blurb on 4000 Ks, but huge analysis and commentary on 300 wins. Am I missing something?
21 players have had 300 wins. True, fewer and fewer get it now, but still.
Roger Clemens is only the THIRD player to top 4000 strikeouts. Doesn’t that make it a bit bigger of a deal? That’s like joining the 600 homer club.
Anyone have any insight why the obviously (to me) bigger accomplishment is being passed over? Especially since the 300W club is dependent on your team quite a bit, while 4000 Ks is purely individual…and more of an individual WOW factor, IMO.
I think that 3000 Strikeouts is generally considered the watermark for a great pitching career, like 500 HRs is for a power hitter. There’s only 10 or so pitchers that have ever even reached 3000 Ks. I agree that 4000 is a huge deal, and reaching this mark throws Clemens in with an insanely elite club. But, it’s just another achievement in a career full of standout stats already.
Bonds joined the 600HR club last year and I don’t think it was a huge media deal, either. Kind of the same thing.
But then again, his 4000th K came in the same game as his 300th win, so of course one had to be overshadowed.
I remember reading before the season that Clemens was also closing in on 4000 Ks, but I didn’t see anything about it until today. I’d forgotten all about it.
Sublight – no, he wasn’t.
Neurotik – no, he’s not and no, they don’t.
In the NY area media, both events were pretty well covered.
A lot of credit, regardless of whether you like The Rocket as a person, must be given for his tenacity and hard work. It’s pretty rare for a 40-year-old guy to be able to compete, let alone pitch at the level of competence that he does. He has a very strict and intense regimen of conditioning that he diligently follows all year to keep in shape, and has been a role model to many younger pitchers in that regard.
I think it’s because 4000 strikeouts is not as important as 300 wins. Strikeouts don’t neccessarily make a great pitcher; Nolan Ryan, the strikeout king who still has over 1000 Ks on everyone else, is not even one of the top 10 pitchers since world war 2. Simply put, he had absolutely dominating days, to be sure, but he was also very wild (most walks in history), and his ERAs were not that much better than average (for the time) during most of his seasons.
Wins are definitely more important than Ks, and I think ERA is more important than wins (if you pitch on teams that don’t score, you’re at a severe disadvantage) when trying to evaluate a pitcher’s career. ERA+ (your ERA compared to the league average) and WHIP (walks + hits per inning pitched) are also good metrics to evaluate a pitcher, though these rate-based stats are less sexy than counting stats (like wins and Ks), hence the media’s fascination with them.
BTW, the pitcher with the best ERA+ since WWII who’s pitched 15+ seasons is Greg Maddux (146), slightly over Roger Clemens (142). Both are pretty amazing; it means that Maddux had on average a 46% better ERA than the league average.
First, the 300th win is a winner-take-all proposition, obviously. By starting the game, you know Clemens will either win, lose, or get a no-decision. The 4000th K could as easily have happened this game, next game, or 20 games previously; the national news networks can’t drum up the same kind of anticipation for a certain strikeout because they can’t be sure when it’ll hit. (So to speak.) Clemens could have struck out 20 in a game (again), or struck out 0.
Second, it’s the payoff for a sense of anticipation. The media is largely to blame for the hoopla over the 300th win because they made such a big deal promoting the possibility for his past three starts. I had no idea Clemens was even close to 4KK. Maybe the question is, why weren’t they hyping the impending 4000th K to begin with?
The same reason, I think, why the Mariners’ 11-win road trip got no national news coverage because Sammy Sosa was appealing his 8-game suspension; the public was waiting with bated breath, I guess, for the media to drop the other shoe.
Now that I’ve got experience mixing similes, I’ll have to go run out and call a baseball game.
I dunno about that… As an M’s fan, I noticed that ESPN was showering praise on the M’s during the latter part of that road run, and Rob Neyer even wrote an exclusive article on the M’s on ESPN.com, with the title “M’s showing few faults”. The Sammy Sosa thing did overshadow most other stories (and it even got in the way of the NHL champion coverage), but it’s far enough past it that I don’t think it affected the 4000 K thing… I think Clemens 300th win overshadowed that on its own, as well as your point about how 4000 Ks is inevitable once you get close enough, while there is some drama as to whether any particular game will be win 300.
What do you mean, he’s not a jerk? Of course he is, and everyone knows it! That doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, but his recent actions with Mike Piazza should be enough to convince people how much of a jerk that he is (kinda Roy-ish).
The headline for the Sports Section of the NY Times today was 300 * 4,000
I agree with Fish, especially the first reason. Strikeouts do not a great pitcher make; wins do. And despite the difference in numbers (two other 4,000-K pitchers, 20 other 300-game winners), the 300th win is the one that places him with a group of immortals like Young and Spahn. As if he wouldn’t make the Hall with 299. Oh well, baseball will always love its milestones.
Next question is, how many more will there be? Greg Maddux is 37 and has 278 wins. Sure, he’s not having a good year, but he could still do it next season if he’s throwing reasonably well. Tom Glavine is also 37 and has 247 wins, but he’s having an even worse year. I’m not as sure about him. Randy Johnson has 225, but he’s going to be 40 this year and he’s having a lot of injury problems. The only other active pitcher with 200 wins seems to be Chuck Finley, who’s not making it either.
Speaking as a Yankee fan, I was royally pissed when King Gorge traded Wells for Clemens.
I hated Clemens. He was a punk in my book. Dave Stewart of the A’s always out-pitched him and out-classed him. Yet Clemens is the future hall-of-famer. He was a headhunter and self-important gasbag. And a choker.
He still is.
Good riddance, please don’t renege on your promise to retire, Roger.
He hit Piazza in the head on purpose. If you doubt that, you don’t understand baseball. Piazza owned Clemens. If he hit Ordonez, it would be different.
300 wins/4000 K’s are huge achievements. I just wish he got there somewhere else…like Boston, for instance.
I save my admiration for humble Yankees…like Posada or Jeter or Soriano or Bernie or Mariano.
Or just have a different opinion, since I’ve never heard anybody (other than people who hate Clemens so much the mention of his name makes them foam at the mouth) suggest that he actually aimed at Piazza’s head.
I live in Boston and when Clemens could smell more money, fame, whaever, off he went to Toronto. Then the Yankees must have seemed more attractive to him so he went to New York. It seems he is not the most likable of baseball types (he’s no Cal Ripken, Nolan Ryan, etc) and I believe the folks in the media aren’t in love with him either. So, as someone else said on this board, why give the guy too much credit.
Clemens went from Boston to Toronto to New York with no regrets about any of those changes. To me it seems his greatest loyalty is to … Roger Clemens.
Oh well, baseball will always love its milestones.