And the point I made is that even though one might’ve made you think of the other, there might not be a connection.
You could say that, but we have no idea since you haven’t said what the music was. What was it?
It’s discrimination because this isn’t an “athiest” store, like a Christian Science Reading room is Christian. It’s neither atheist, nor religious. Sure the boss can play whatever he wants, but he didn’t change the music because he didn’t like the music. He changed it because someone complained. When someone else complained, he didn’t change it. How is that not discrimination? One person’s opinion mattered more than another’s.
Well, I would think that the general public wouldn’t like a store in the mall playing Black Sabbath. So, no, it wouldn’t bother me. But if she put on something like The Beatles, and he changed it to Christian music, then you might have something. But that wouldn’t likely happen. General secular music isn’t really anti-religious. If he did change it, I would probably think that he just did it because he didn’t like The Beatles.
I wouldn’t be suprised. But the important thing to think about is that while you are fighting for equality, it’s important not to let the pendulum swing the other way.
It’s discrimination in the vaguest possible sense of the term (a less loaded word might be "taste). A store manager putting on music that in your opinion is anti-Christian is not discriminating against Christians. Maybe your reference to lawsuits in the OP was an isolated one, but you do realize you’d have absolutely no grounds to sue here, right?
Right offhand, I can’t think of an anti-religious Black Sabbath song.
Nobody wants to hear that Christian music crap. Hell, even most Christians can’t stand it. And playing music that is not “Christian” does NOT make it atheist. It just makes it normal, everyday music.
You have to realize… that Christian music stuff is really offensive to some people that believe in rationality and logic.
I’m a pretty rational, logical person, and I can’t think of any Christian music that offends me. Some of it seems too pontificatory, proselytizing, or heavy on insider figures of speech, but hardly offensive.
OMG, this must be, like, the first boss in history to be a dick! Someone call teh newspapers!
Can you at least give us an example of what music he played that Christians objected to? If their objection was “hey, this music is just all about some loser’s girlfriend and not about how awesome the lord is!” then the logic might be a little circular…
I’d have to disagree with that “most” word there. Progressive Non-denominational churches that sing contemporary praise music is soaring in popularity.
Umm… music that doesn’t glorify God is athiest. Music that advocates sex outside of marriage is offensive to many Christians. And the point here is that there WERE some people that were offended by the secular music.
Of course. Some people might find Barney (or whatever childish music is popular now) offensive. People’s tastes range. People believe all kinds of things. I think it’s offensive to call someone babe. See? Anyone can think of something as offensive. So what matters isn’t what COULD be offensive, but what someone DID think of was offensive. Don’t forget, the boss put on music that he knew would be offensive to Christians. The boss could have played something more generic, but he didn’t. How isn’t that discrimination.
I don’t know what the music was, but since my friend said that the boss KNEW the Christians would find the music offensive (don’t ask me how) it tells me it’s not your generic “loser’s girlfriend” music.
And people, it’s not about the boss or even this incident. I’m making a point about society being ANTI-religion. I’m showing an example about how society is being intolerant.
Did you read the motto of this message board before joining/participating?
It clearly says “Fighting Ignorance Since 1973”.
Some of us have been fighting Ignorance long before 1973. And a “Wake up call” to get rid of the concept of God and Religion has been predominant in that fight.
You ask: Why is non-Christian rock music any better than Christian rock music?
The answer is: “It is taking longer than we thought”, if there are still people like you around to even raise such questions. Eradicating ignorance inherently means tolerating “religion” like we tolerate a baby’s cry, a dog’s bark, or the fart smell of other people.
Bottom line. The day we eradicate ignorance will be the day that the whole concept of “religion” is totally eliminated as an issue, let alone discussing the merit of Christian versus non-Christian rock music.
Yeah. That’s the same way some of it seems to me. And I find that offensive. Not so offensive that I think I need to write my congress-person, but it is offensive to me nonetheless.
But look-- I’m not going to freak out over some Christian music played in a bookstore or whatever. It is the right of the store-owner/management to play what they want.
Really, the whole thing would have to get rather down-and-dirty before I would take offense. (for example-- “You heathen satanists will suck the teat of Beelzelbub.” Or, “All God’s children fornicate with Satan’s brother-in-law.”)
Ummm yeah… but that’s not what the OP is talking about, is it?
You know, in a sense that’s true. But you’re using “atheist” to mean something nobody else here thought it meant, so please explain yourself more fully. Music that doesn’t glorify or mention god is better described as secular. If you’d said it was secular people would know what you were saying. Secular music can be anything; atheist sounds more specific.
No, you’re trying to make a point about society being anti-religion. Increasingly it sounds like you’re intolerant, not society. How is putting on music that is not religious “anti-religious?” Your first few posts made it sound like the boss turned off Christian music and put on music that was critical of Christianity or religion. Now it sounds like he could’ve put on anything that wasn’t Gregorian chanting. Can you stop dancing around and say what the music was? I’m getting the sense you don’t want to. I’m also getting the sense that you didn’t want to debate anything, you just wanted to vent.
Hey-- you sing it in the church-- no problemo… however if you abuse my rationality with your fairy-tale nonsense? I have a problem. But I can let it slide… I know there are people out there that are deluded. Just don’t knock someone because they don’t want that tripe playing in their store.
And music that doesn’t glorify “God” (and which God are you talking about? Zeus? Satan?) is not atheistic. It just isn’t brain-washed, cult pablum.
Your post strikes me as defiantly ignorant.
A couple of questions for you. Is Mozart Atheist? How about other classical composers?
There’s a fellow named Orlando di Lasso who wrote some glorious church music back in th 1500s. He also wrote pieces like “I Know a Young Maiden Wondrous Fair.” Trust me, he’s not talking about St. Mary.
Is Billy Joel Atheist? How about Meatloaf or, moving into the 21st century 3 Doors Down?
I’m a devout Christian and have been for over 30 years. Come on, the whole reason I’m on-line at this hour is I was checking e-mail to see if I’d received a message which would affect what I’d do at church today. That said, “Christian Rock Music” as a rule, especially when it’s explicitly Christian, bothers me. It’s not the quality of the music which bothers me, but the element of coercion and conversion I see in it. There’s a feeling of “You can’t be a Christian unless you’re just like me” which I read from it, in part because I’ve had people question whether a liberal, feminist, pro-choice, pro-homosexual, if such a term exists woman like me can still be a Christian and reconcile that with her Christian faith, and some of them don’t take “Yes” for an answer.
The Second Commandment Christ gave us ordered us to love our neighbors. To me, that includes respecting their sensibilities and not “beating them over the head with the Jesus stick” which is what we Christians tend to do all to often. Environments and sensibilities vary, even within the same person on different days. I told you once about how a man on a bus tried to convert me to Christianity after I’d asked him to speak more quietly while he was bragging about the success of his mission trip which involved converting a Catholic to Christianity. Normally, I can tune out most music, but, if I’d found myself stuck in a place which was not an explicitly Christian establishment and which was only playing Christian music, I might have said something under the circumstances. Keep in mind that the whole reason I was on that bus was to get back to my city so I could sing in my church’s Lessons and Carols service.
prisoner, since you’ve said the information is second-hand and of the “I know it when I see it” type, you may be running more on offended sensibilities than logic. 13 months ago, I objected to a man trying to convert me to Christianity. Does that make me anti-Christian? I hope it doesn’t make me an Atheist; if it does, I think some One might be a bit suprised.
I listen to Billy Joel, Meatloaf, and 3 Doors Down, although I prefer Bach to Mozart. I’ve sung Orlando di Lasso’s beautiful religous music; when I was with the Society for Creative Anachronism, I also sung his “O When My Husband Staggers Home” which is about a man who beats his wife who doesn’t care because “I am young and he is old, and he is old!”
Please consider that there may be more here than meets the eye.
CJ
>Why is the world becoming so ANTI-religious instead of not pro-religious. (There is a difference.)
This is an interesting point which I think you’ve missed yourself.
Religion enjoys a special priviliged status in that our society preserves your right to believe in a religion without your having to justify it. One of the ways we do that is to resist endorsing specific religions in settings where we’re all supposed to get along with each other without regard to religion. For instance, at work we each may have our own religious views - after all, we’re there to work, not to worship. So music that specifically promotes some religions over others would be inappropriate in the workplace.
I think the same logic would make music that is offensive to Christians inappropriate - if the reason it’s offensive is that it has religious content. But you couldn’t use the “religious offense” issue if the music was offensive just because it’s generally sort of badass and in-your-face.
Actually, I think music in the workplace is generally a bad idea anyway, because it’s obtrusive and because there are so few sources of music that won’t bother anybody ever.
Excuse me. Shortly after my last post, I learned my grandmother may not make it through the next 24 hours. If I take a break from this thread for the next few days, this is why, and it won’t be due to any disrespect, disagreement, or, for that matter, agreement with anything posted here. For those of you who are interested, I’ll put more details in MPSIMS shortly.
One thing I will point out. The support, comfort, and hope I’ll be drawing on from my church and my faith are one reason I do not consider my faith to be a sign of ignorance.
Please accept my apologies.
CJ
Let me get this straight. If your boss put on ranchero music, and then took it off because someone complained, would you say that your boss was racist because he wouldn’t play Mexican country music? 
Sorry, but it is not an issue of better or worse. Christian rock music is appealing to a small segment of the population - namely Christians. Your basic Top 40 station appeals to a much wider demographic and is therefore more appropriate for the workplace.
There are many athiests who actively attack religeon and seem to believe that they should not have to suffer anyone believing in something they do not. I do not agree with this philosophy. What makes many people hostile towards Christians (or any other religeon for that matter) is when believers feel that they have the right to enforce their reliegeous beliefs or traditions on others. You have the right to listen to Christian rock. You don’t have the right to make everyone else listen to it. Your boss is being perfectly fair and reasonible.
I’m going to point out that Black Sabbath is, in fact, not anti-Christian music. Most of their work is about whatever popped into their minds at the time, usually drugs (The Wizard, Sweet Leaf, Snowblind) or death (Electric Funeral, War Pigs), and several of their songs are explicitly Christian in nature.
Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you’re dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?
After Forever , Black Sabbath.
Evanescence is also another band that is fairly darn christian, despite interviews that try to hide it. Including Amy Lee’s complete denial of singing in choir in church.
My Tourniquet , Evanescence.
King’s X is pretty decent for a pure christian band, too.
Just because a piece of music isn’t explicitly for something, does not mean it is against it. Did the music say abortion is bad? If not, it must be pro-choice music! Did it mention how nifty it is to eat meat? No? Turn off that damn vegitarian music!