Again, prisoner6655321, could you please tell us WHAT music was being played, and why it was specifically anti-Christian?
First of all, I assume (as I couldn’t google up anything else) that you’re talking about this story.
Secondly, I should point out that I live in silicon valley, which is about as secular a place as there is in the US, and someone put up a small (1 or 2 feet tall) obviously temporary cross, along with a bunch of flowers, by the side of the road that I drove to work on, which I assume was a memorial to a dead loved one, and it stayed up there for months.
That’s VERY different than an 8-foot tall semi-permanent cross, which I find somewhat problematic, although (out of respect for the family) I wouldn’t leap up and fire off lawsuits within moments of laying eyes on it.
Anyhow, since the topic came up, I find the following article entertaining, if not necessarily 100% fact-checked and precise:
Life In Our Anti-Christian America
It might be interesting to get the views of members with different perspectives regarding John Lennon’s “Imagine,” as well. I’d venture to guess that there is not one member here who agrees with every word of it, but I’d speculate that there’s a large-majority consensus, running across religious lines, regarding the appropriateness of its basic content, with reservations on certain lyrics from it.
Ever listen to Stryper?
So what we’ve got is a boss who turns off some “Christian” music, gets in a snit and puts on some “Anti-Christian” music. And we don’t have any examples of what the music was or anything like that so how offensive any of the music was to anybody is way up in the air.
Based on this I’ll opine that the boss either takes umbrage at people coming into his shop and telling him what to play or he’s a jerk. Or both. So the boss is a bit of a poopy-head, or maybe the customers are, I really don’t think that you can say the boss or the other folks represent everyone else in the country.
FWIW, I’m agnostic. I don’t particularly like having any kind of message crammed down my throat by my music, but that applies to REM as well as some Christian contemporary rock. On the other hand there’s some explicitly religious music that I enjoy - great gospel, “Spirit In The Sky”, etc.
If it’s the song that says,
I really don’t like that song. First, I don’t think it’s good to live for today. Nobody would save their money. And second, is he saying that religion is contrary to peace? I like peace too, but I think that if people took their religions as personal choices instead of ways to judge others, differing religions wouldn’t be a problem. Religion isn’t the problem. The people that use it to oppress and kill others are.
Religion doesn’t kill, people do.
Okay. I have you now. 
All of you who are asking what the secular music was are discriminating against the Christian customers and the Christian music. Why aren’t you asking what the christian music was? You’re accepting the opinion of the customers who complained about the Christian music. Why aren’t you also accepting the opinions of the religious customers?
Two people complained. One you accept. The other you want proof. That’s discrimination.
Because “Christian” denotes a specific kind of content. “Non-Christian” conveys nothing. If you want to assert that secualr music is offensive just because it’s secular then you really are on the moon.
As a Christian–I would like to know each of the songs, please. And post lyrics–I am sure to not be familiair with the “christian” one.
And I find your discomfort with Lennon’s classic “Imagine” to be telling. Hell, there was a WKRP in Cincinnati show on that whole song. It’s premise is imagine or, if you like, think what if …he is not degrading religion, he is positing what IF there were none–but I suppose that is offensive to these very fragile Christians(?). The paranoia and outright fear here give me pause–just how persecuted can a dominant religion feel? It’s not like anyone wants to ban Christmas!
I still don’t see how playing secular music makes today’s society anti- Christian. If anything, society is more “Christian” than ever.
I cannot imagine a song, short of kill Jesus, he sucks or similiar to be offensive to “Christians”–unless we are talking of the creatures that faithfool mentioned, who would find something Satanic in a dial tone, ferPete’s sake.
I am one of two white people in my unit(the rest are AA, Hispanic, Filipino). I loathe rap and hip hop. So does the other white person. Does this makes us racist?
no. It makes us middle aged! (jk). No-it does not.
As a Christian–I would like to know each of the songs, please. And post lyrics–I am sure to not be familiair with the “christian” one.
And I find your discomfort with Lennon’s classic “Imagine” to be telling. Hell, there was a WKRP in Cincinnati show on that whole song. It’s premise is imagine or, if you like, think what if …he is not degrading religion, he is positing what IF there were none–but I suppose that is offensive to these very fragile Christians(?). The paranoia and outright fear here give me pause–just how persecuted can a dominant religion feel? It’s not like anyone wants to ban Christmas!
I still don’t see how playing secular music makes today’s society anti- Christian. If anything, society is more “Christian” than ever.
I cannot imagine a song, short of kill Jesus, he sucks or similiar to be offensive to “Christians”–unless we are talking of the creatures that faithfool mentioned; they would find something Satanic in a dial tone, ferPete’s sake.
I am one of two white people in my unit(the rest are AA, Hispanic, Filipino). I loathe rap and hip hop. So does the other white person. Does this makes us racist?
no. It makes us middle aged! (jk). No-it does not.
You know, it’s funny – Jesus didn’t say to win arguments. Remember what He did say to do?
And how do you know the customers who complained about the “Christian music” weren’t religious?
Just for the record, I cast my vote for Imagine. I have no problem with any of the lyrics. Even taken literally. In ten thousand years when people finally get tired of waiting for a magic savior, then they can start to live in the here and now. And develop compassion for one another based on doing the right thing. Compelled by what they feel in their hearts. And not whether some “deity” thinks it’s right. Also music is music. “Secular” is a religious label. Just like Jewish folks may consider me a “gentile”. I don’t have to accept that label. It’s about perspective. Even though we may feel strongly about our beliefs(non-beliefs) we should not be arrogant enough to look down on those who think differently. And leave room for possibly being wrong.
There are no agnostic/atheist missionaries.
Actually, some of the most major impacts I’ve had on people’s lives were from using not-officially-religious music to bring important points home to them.
For example, my three boys:
Jay never lost his concept that God exists – and I specifically didn’t use “faith” or “belief,” because that was precisely what he did lose. He was firmly convinced that God had destined him to an unhappy life where his only fulfillment was helping his same-age-cousin-like-a-brother and his best friend (my other two boys) deal with their more successful love lives and aspirations for their futures.
Barb and I sang, in duet, a cappella, The Rose to him. And somehow that was exactly what he needed to get back on track emotionally. (He’s now happily married with two kids.)
Chris’s father was in absentia all but a few weeks of his life; Mike’s was present but taciturn to the point there was no emotional connection between them (very much like my own father; Mike is one of only four living people who knew my father as a person; dealing with his own father prepared him to actually be a friend to mine before he died). What resonated with them, and helped them deal with the hurt and anger they felt, were two songs: Mike and the Mechanics’ The Living Years and Poison’s Something to Believe in. And we worked from there to their spirituality, as part of reconstructing three damaged spirits (mine too; Chris had just the insights to know how to heal me as I was trying to heal him, perhaps the greatest gift God ever gave me as an individual was that boy).
You know, I really wish you’d learned the meaning of the word discrimination before you started a debate on what it is because it would’ve saved us a lot of time. It’s not the customers and their opinions we’re accepting or rejecting. It’s your definition of “anti-Christian,” if you’ve got one. And what the hell happened to finding out what the song is?
I’ve had my doubts about the whole accunt…why would any sales-conscious shopkeep want or allow Xian rock on his PA in the first place, complaints or no? That stuff is almost carcinogenically bad…why not just lob a cannister of tear gas into the store to attract more business? Leave a mouldering rat under a display to enhance the odor, perhaps? Nobody who wants to sell product is going to inflict that music on his customers. You put music on in a store that the average customer actually wants to listen to, so they’ll hang around, peruse the aisles, buy something, eventually. I’d react to that sort of ambience the same way I’d react if it the proprieter were playing the “Cop Rock” soundtrack. I wouldn’t complain, I’d turn the hell around and find another store.
Christian music by its very nature is proselytizing and has certain traits. There are no such certain traits which are common to all non-Christian music. Therefore, more information is needed.
It’s not discrimination, and it doesn’t alleviate the damn question: What was the song?
You dodge more questions than James Bond does bullets. It’s damn near impossible to have a conversation with you.
Okay, I asked her and she said that she didn’t remember. I can’t imagine the “secular” songs being anything benign. She remembers them being really offensive, even to non-christians. It’s just that the person that complained happened to be Christian. Turns out this happened like a year ago. Is it not enough to say that two opposing viewpoints complained, and rather than favoring both, the non-christian one was favored? The specific music is not important. What if I made up a scenario and said that a Christian employee wanted a country music station on and an atheist employee wanted a jazz music station on? I’m saying that the boss would have chosen jazz, not because he liked jazz, but because he didn’t like the Christian employee’s opinions. Back to the situation in the OP. It’s not about the music. It’s the people that complained that is what’s important. And that’s where the discrimination comes in.
And besides, this situation is just the opening to the real discussion: that the world is becoming more anti-religious.
He’s not degrading religion??? He’s saying that without religion there would be peace! How is that not degrading religion?
No just change it from a celebration of Jesus’ birth to a holiday.
When did I say that playing secular music makes today’s society anti- Christian? I said it reminded me that the world is becoming more and more anti-religious. Please people get it through your heads. This discussion wasn’t supposed to be about musical tastes or choices. It’s supposed to be about tolerance and discrimination against religious folk.
Oh, I agree. I kind of don’t like the term myself. But it does mean music that isn’t specifically religious.
Right, just like I don’t have to accept the word “partner” by gays.
But that’s not what this discussion is about! You want to discuss the definition of anti-Christian? Start your own discussion. The specific music isn’t important.
Yeah, I totally agree. And that’s why I know that the guy was being discriminatory. He chose the music specifically because it would offend Christians. I’m sure that it offended some non-christians too.
No that’s totally not true at all. Come on spectrum. I expected more from you. This is SDMB. We have standards here. You need to do some research before making a blank statement like that. You know that worship songs, songs that just praise God, aren’t proselytizing. You may FEEL that someone who turns on worship music is proselytizing. And that might be true, but (read) more likely the person wants to listen to the music, or wants to praise God.
Here is a few:
1- Albert Ellis, Free Inquiry, Spring 1988, Vol, 8, No. 2, Spring 1988
2- The Biological Roots of Religion by Morton Hunt, 1999
3- “Why do people believe or disbelieve” by Professor Paul Kurtz, State University of New York at Buffalo. FI Vol. 19, No.3
4- A Forum on Similarities between Religion and Mental Disorder, February 2004
I am sure you’ll find much more if you search the literature, studies and research on psychophysiological and neurobiological foundations and causes of religiosity.
That’s great. I’m going to try to swear with “Voltaire damn it” when I think of it.
And prisoner, the music is important because not all claimplaints are equal. If I was playing, say, some random jazz song, and someone claimed that they found the A-train offensive because they didn’t like public transportation, I’d be tempted to just laugh it off. I’d change it, but others may just laugh it off.
Also, consider if he was just playing top 40 stuff, and one song that came up happened to be questionable. By the time the complaint came up, the song would be almost over anyway.
Now, a reasonable person may suggest that it probably wasn’t the A-train that’s being complained about, but we an’t know
complaints, not claimplaints. it was originally claims, but then I thought complaints would be better there.
And we’re just supposed to take her word for it? I can’t imagine an employer putting something “really offensive” over the store PA (though I would consider Christian music to be really offensive, as a person with taste). And now this is all taking place a year ago? I notice that whenever you’re pressed for details, you never have them.
No, because the song being played could be something perfectly reasonable to everyone but your hyper-sensitive friend and the person who complained. It could be something as innocuous as John Lennon’s “Imagine.”
Says you. But you’re not the best source for information.
You can regurgitate your persecution complex all you want, but that’s just not the case. Look at the rise of religious fundmentalism around the world, and how much danger it’s put us all in. That’s moving TO religion, not away from it. And it’s f-ing scary.
Religion has been at the core of many of the world’s greatest wars. Without religion, there could well have been less warfare in history.
Do you even know what the term “holiday” means? Good Lord. Ignorance is here, and it is fighting us.
Except you can never show any verifiable examples of that. This anecdote keeps shifting and shaking (always to avoid answering questions you can’t parry, I notice).
So what the hell would you have me call the person I’m spending my life with?
Now you’re a mind reader, too.
Yes they are. And any business that plays that filth will not get one cent of my money. Keep your god crap out of my ears if you want my business. All Christian music, aside from classical church music sung in churches, is utter, complete and total crap. May all who sing it burn forever in Hell.