Why Do Blacks LOATHE George W. Bush?

The general perception in the black community, is that the republican party favors the rich (of which blacks make up a small percentage). Many of the latest political campaigns particulary here in California, has promoted that theory even more. Couple that with policies promoted by our former governor Pete Wilson (and similar ones throughout the nation, and you’ll get a clearer idea of how blacks perceive republicans. Sure AA has played a role, but it’s a role mainly produced by the media. Both conservative and liberal alike.

The other issue is who’s courting that vote. Republicans tend to write off the black vote. The Bush kids were notable exceptions to this policy, both Jeb and Dubya specifically courted their votes in their gubernatorial campaigns. Quite the opposite of what Wilson did, when he seemed intent on antagonizing both the Black and Latino communities. One of the things you’ll note is that a couple of the issue that repubs favored like school vouchers and lower taxes were supported in the black community.

And as noted above they also put Jeb in the govenor’s mansion.

Maybe there’s just a misunderstanding between puddleglum and stuffinb on the implications of “affirmative action” in this case. Maybe puddleglum’s SO’s coworkers were saying “if affirmative action policies are eradicated, there will be fewer defenses against the racism that is still widespread in this society and we will be more likely to be discriminated against in employment,” but what stuffinb inferred that puddleglum thought they were saying was “without affirmative action, we won’t get the special treatment we need to get employment, because we’re not competent to compete on our merits in an unbiased marketplace.”

I think the latter statement is completely unjustified and I can’t imagine why most black people would think or say such a thing, so if I heard a white person reporting that black people did say it, I too might be inclined to suspect racism, not to mention dumbness. But the former statement sounds like a quite reasonable and realistic black person’s “take” on affirmative action, so maybe that’s what puddleglum’s SO’s coworkers actually meant. puddleglum’s brief statement could be read either way, I think.

All I’m saying is that most black criminals prey on other black people. Although I’ve heard it said (never saw the research) that black murderers are likelier to be sentenced to death for killing white people than for killing black people, even those who have been sentenced for killing white people are statistically likely to have spent at least most of their criminal careers assaulting black men, raping black women, selling drugs to black children, or otherwise victimizing members of the black community.

As a “white” person, I have no objection at all to the killing of serial murderers, almost all of whom are white people and who preferentially target other white people. I do not see why, if I were a black person, that I would object to the killing of black murderers who usually target other black people.

A memorable case in point for me was a black woman I saw on a newscast whose son had just been murdered. She was getting in the face of the anti-death-penalty mayor of Washington, D.C., whose name escapes me (it wasn’t Marion Barry at the time). She was telling the mayor that the killer “needs to be executed.” I’m sure I would feel much the same in her place.

I certainly would not make any claims that Gore’s position on execution is in any way preferable to that of Bush’s. However, actions do speak louder than words.

While I agree with you that many votes are cast out of simple-minded loyalty, the efforts of organizations like the NAACP and CEDP cannot be discounted in this discussion. These organizations have been quite effective in delivering specific data points regarding racism and executions that are sure to get people excited. While the CEDP speaks no flattering words of Al Gore, G. W. Bush’s record has made him quite an easy target of their criticism. I doubt there are a many black voters, or voters in general, who are unaware of the disturbing killing trends in Texas. Such things are hard to dismiss when it is so easy to make them seem like a deliberate attack on one’s race by a particular individual.

As a correction to my previous post, the method of execution employed in Texas is lethal injection.
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Bush is preparing to name African-Americans Colin Powell Secretary of State and Condolleeza Rice (a woman to boot) National Security Advisor.

A) The Democrats have never named African Americans for such major cabinet positions.

B) Does anyone actually think you would appoint people to such crucial postions as window-dressing?

C) Bush has a better record of hiring and working with minorities (particularly Hispanics) that Gore can even begin to claim.

D) More black Republicans ran for national office in this November’s election than ever before.

Many progressive people in the GOP are working to reverse its all-white image of the past and to be more diverse. Looks like they’re succeeding to me. If others choose to not see it or pooh-pooh it, I guess that’s their right.

Jeb did get a much higher percentage of the black vote than most Repubs do but this was before the fight over affirmative action. It would be interesting to know his poll numbers now.
The perception of the GOP as party of the rich is not isolated in the black community but the 90/10 split between parties is.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Danimal *
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As a “white” person, you have no idea what it’s like to be the subject of racial profiling by police, among others. I’m not picking a side here, just mentioning that cultural differences are something to be understood instead of discounted.

Black people are conservative? In which issues? Certianly not:
Social programs
Abortion
Death penalty
Taxes
Affirmative action
Racial profiling
Health care issues

Republicans stand on the wrong side of the ideological divide on all of these issues. Plus Bush is stupid. Now go ahead and flame me Freedom.

Seeings how this is Great Debates, care to explain how, exactly, Republicans “stand on the wrong side of the ideological divide on all of these issues?”

What is the “right side,” and why?

How do you know Bush is stupid? Examples?

Or are you in Great Debates under the special Stoidela Waiver, too?

Biggirl Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods, but I know most blacks here in Calif, and in MI when I lived there do in fact support

The death penalty
Appose abortion (though there seems to be split depending on age)
And favor less taxes.

They also tend to vote for more punitive efforts in crime control. Especially disheartening when you consider the WOD.
**Kimstu ** You may be right, puddleglum hasn’t expanded on it, so I apologize if my knee jerk response caused any spillage :smiley:

Puddleglum see above, also to your post. I’m not sure, I thought he did a pretty good job of diffusing the situation by inviting blacks and women to participate in remodeling the program. I could be wrong. How about it Floridians any words out there on this.

Danimal I not sure how much of a role the death penalty played in the election. It seemed to be brushed over in the campaign. And as another poster mentioned, neither candidate has a record suggesting an anti-death penalty leaning.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jumblemind *
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Probably quite correct. I have no experience being the target of racial profiling. I do have experience being a member of a racial group whose murderers (especially the serial killers) largely target that same racial group. If others with that experience feel differently about it, I would like to know the cause (maybe racial profiling has something to do with it).

Actually, I think a white person could understand what it’s like to be the subject of racial profiling, especially if he were in the police force, or if he were friends with a lot of people who were so victimized, such that he was personally present while the police were harassing them. But neither is true in my case, so you’re right that I have no idea what it’s like.

I would venture to guess that it stinks.

I meant the wrong side in relation to black people.
And Milo, when I get home from work, I’ll get you some quotes.

stuffinb, I’ll show you my polls if you show me yours.

There was a paragraph in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution a little over a week ago that said that Bush had the lowest percentage of black voters vote for him than any Republican since Goldwater. (I don’t have a link to that, though, as the paper online only carries articles for seven days.)

I don’t really know why, either. Bush did his best to come off as a compassionate conservative (minus the executions, of course) but for some reason it didn’t work well.

Here is an article on the reaction of some Florida Black people to Jeb Bush’s proposal.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/030700/met_march12noon.html

OK, I’ll bite. How are Republicans on the wrong side of the ideological divide from black people on all of those issues, specifically?

I didn’t know Republicans were for racial profiling and blacks were for not having their taxes reduced.

And if you’re going to run home and find some funny liberal email of George W. malaprops for my behalf, don’t waste your energy.

Such quotes wouldn’t serve to prove a person is stupid. Suppose your every uttered word was scrutinized by people rabidly searching to make you look bad. How do you think you’d do?

Here you go Biggirl, for the death penatly

While 53% is not exactly overwhelming it does show more support.

You don’t need one for the taxes do you? I can’t remeber wher I got the abortion cite, give me a minute.

biggirl, are you sure you’re not thinking of the self-apponited “black leadership” which does tend to be more liberal? From the list you yourself posted, I perceive blacks as being on the “conservative” side of many of those issues. I guess that makes them “wrong” by your definition.

Take abortion. Many black Civil Rights leaders were very much against abortion, even the ones that have switched sides in the last couple of decades (Jesse Jackson for example). Much of the civil rights movement came out of the black churches. True, the influence of the chirch in black communities has waned (as it has for society as a whole), but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a strong core remaining. In sum, there is a very large, very conservative (in the non-Republican sense) force in the black community. I’m not sure why you don’t see it. True, it doesn’t make the papers as much as Al Sharpton’s marches, but it is there.

School vouchers. Black support continually outpolls white support. Of course, because of the NEA-Democrat relationship, I think the voice of just regular black folk gets swamped by the vocal black leadership, which is so intertwined with the Democratic Party that people fail to notice the grass roots.

Taxes. I think most blacks want lower taxes, same as whites.

Death penalty and criminal justice in general. I’d like to see some polls on how support for being “tough on crime” breaks down according to race. I hear a lot of voices in the black community, the older generations in particular, who decry what has happened to their neighborhoods; who lament the fact that drug dealers have taken over their communities and are working on corrupting the younger generations, which are the future of the black accomplishement in this country. You won’t hear too many bleeding hearts if you listen carefully. Put the punks in jail is what I hear. And for the gang killers? many blacks favor the death penalty.

Military. I know this wasn’t on your list, but I thought I’d bring it up anyway. I was thinking about this when people were guessing how the military ballots would come in. Officers for Bush and enlisted for Gore was what a lot of people were guessing, based on the higher percentage of minority in the enlisted ranks. Well, things may have changed, but I was in the Army during both Bush Sr. campaigns. I knew of no black soldiers who supported Dukakis over Bush, and only one who professed to support Clinton. My unit was in the south and was about 50/50 along racial lines. Again, maybe things have changed.

Let’s see, what else? What is your perceprion of acceptance of homosexuality in the black community? My perception is that there is a significantly larger percentage of gay-acceptaing whites out there than gay-accepting blacks. I have no numbers for this; it is just a perception.

Maybe I just have a much different background than you, biggirl. the blacks I know personally have been through church (protestant and evangelical, mostly), the Army, and through my profession (science). Those demographics prety much skew conservative, so it is no wonder the blacks I know tend to be more conservative.

However, it is not only that. I grew up in the south, where the percentage of blacks runs a lot higher than many other areas of the country. I read the papers every day. Not just the headlines where the leaders get their sound bites and press releases in bold print, but in the interviews with black families, the church-goers, the single mothers, the kids trying to get ahead when the odds are stacked against them. When you listen to those voices, I think you hear the very definition of conservative (and, again, I don’t mean “Republican”).

You guys are getting a little sensitive if you think I like to flame people. Please show me where I have flamed people outside of one emotionally charged pit thread where I admit to pulling out my flamethrower.
Please give me a cite.

If you consider drawing attention to either your hypocrisy or ignorance a flame, then I suggest you may be more comfortable in MPSIMS.
(does that count as a flame?:))

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by divemaster *
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Hello!

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A bit?

Ah. Now I understand, Danimal. Personally, I’m very much against the idea of a state killing its own citizens, regardless of the conviction or the race of anyone involved. I think that’s why I had trouble following your earlier question. Very well. Carry on.

Weren’t they the Dixiecrats by that time? I’m pretty sure Strom Thurmond, a former Southern Democrat, switched and called himself a Dixiecrat when Truman took office.