Why Do Blacks LOATHE George W. Bush?

Great Debates
41

I can’t beleive you guys are trying to re-write history and blame the Repubs for the civil rights abuses. It was the pubbies who had Lincoln as the President during that little skirmish called the Civill War. It may or may not have been fought over slavery, but it did have the practical effect of ending it. The Republicans were hated in the south for a good hundred years for the civil war. Even now they are only starting to shed the hatred left over from the 1880’s.

(those southerners really know how to hold a grudge:))

42

I think Blacks (legitimately) view GWB as the poster child for white privilege, offered up by the party whose consistent message to the socio-economically disadvantaged is “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”.

This message coming from a man who never had to do anything for himself is particularly galling. Gore comes from the same privileged social class as Bush, but at least he and his party aren’t pushing a message of “sink or swim” economic Darwinism.

43

Strom Thurmond ran for president in 1948 on the States’ Rights Democratic ticket, popularly known as the “Dixiecrat” ticket. He actually managed to receive some electoral votes; I believe he carried four states. However, the Dixiecrats were not an ongoing viable political party. Thurmond’s next political activity, getting elected to the Senate in 1954 (as a write-in candidate) was as a Democrat. He remained a Democrat until, IIRC, 1964.

44

Death penalty polls. I found many more, but most were from ani-death penalty sites and did not think it would be fair to post these.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr000224.asp

http://icrsurvey.com/icr/abc_death0700.htm

Abortion. This one is interesting in that it shows black men are more “pro-abortion” than black women.
http://prolife.about.com/newsissues/prolife/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trinity.edu%2F~mkearl%2Fabort1.jpg
Most polls I found on abortion do not break down by race. And a lot of polls I found were either on pro-life or pr0-choice sites, making them suspect.

Do you expect me to find polls that say black people want higher taxes? This was not the debate between Reps and Dems during this election. The debate was how any tax cuts should be implimented.

And Milo, I wasn’t running home to find any e-mail anything (like I keep e-mails that do not have anything to do with me.) If you cannot judge someone by their own words, how else can you do it?

45

It is widely rumored that Strom was a front running candiate to be Lincoln’s VP. After he was passed over, it wasn’t until he participated in the Armistice agreement to end WWI that he reappeared on the national scene. It is widely gosspied about in DC that he sleep hanging from the ceiling and only comes at dark.

I figure the rest of the country will start getting suspicous somewhere around his 13th term as Senator.

46

The problem with the first poll you cite Biggirl is that it states higher support among whites than non-whites. But that’s only part of the story.

The LA TIMES poll of earlier this year confirms the earlier poll. Though it may be in the margin of error.

I couldn’t bring up your abortion poll, can you quote it?

No I didn’t espect you to find polls regarding taxes, I was just asking.

Did you see Divemasters post by the way. My experience pretty much mirrors that. But hey, maybe I just hang with a more conservative crowd than I realized. Hell, Ive even called my wife a closet republican :smiley:

47

I think you guys are missing the point here. It’s not so much Democrat vs. Republican as it is liberal ideology vs. conservative ideology. The two parties have realigned quite a few times in the past 2 centuries. Once upon a time, the Republicans were all for abolition and reconstructing the South, and they got a heavy black vote (if they could actually get past the grandfather clauses and poll taxes). The next really big switch was with Democratic prez FDR who started lots of desperately-needed social programs. That has got to be the main reason why black support Dems.

Also, the fact that the Republicans have representatives like Trent Lott, Bob Barr, Henry Hyde, Newt Gingrich, Pat Buchanan (formerly), et cetera, isn’t exactly reassuring towards blacks. And as for Bush, you all may have forgotten his father’s Willie Horton-ploy, and those commercials implying that good, upstanding working-class white citizens were losing precious jobs to those damn, unskilled blacks because of affirmative action (it was really just Bush’s recession). And Reagan… oh don’t even get me started.

In sum, Republicans haven’t exactly endeared themselves to blacks for the past 50 years. And as for blacks being more conservative…huh? I’ve lived in Chicago, Boston, and South Florida and the blacks I know from these areas are for the most part, rabid liberals. Probably the one thing the black community has in common with Republicans is an acute condition of homophobia.

48

“but at least he and his party aren’t pushing a message of “sink or swim” economic Darwinism.”

Yeah can’t trust those capatilists.

Isin’t the death penalty totally moot? Its not a liberal or republican arguement since both canidates support it.

Bush is stupid because of his 130 iq. IMHO anyone that stupid shoulden’t be let near a president.

49

Perhaps it is geography. I live in New York City, where everything skewers to the liberal side.

I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m finding it hard to find national polls that break issues down by race. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I’m also getting the feeling that many sites decided not to post the detailed exit poll results that can usually be found by the bucketful. Could that have anything to do with how all the pollsters got burned this election?

I can find local factoids that back up my case, but as I said earlier, we New Yorkers tend to be much more liberal than the rest of the country.

So why did black people come out in droves to vote against Bush? Were they actually voting against Bush or for Gore?

Freedom, my remark was based on your remark to Stoidela in this thread. Perhaps the two of you have a personal thing going on.

Milo: Bush’s own words, taken from the actual sources. Now, let me add that saying “Bush is stupid” was inflammatory. It is also only my opinion. But I think he certainly looks like a big dummy when he says things like:

“The legislature’s job is to write law. It’s the executive branch’s
job to interpret law.”—
Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000

“I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial profiling,
which is illiterate children.”—
Source:Second presidential debate, Oct. 11, 2000
“The fundamental question is, ‘Will I be a successful president when it
comes to foreign policy?’ I will be, but until I’m the president, it’s
going to be hard for me to verify that I think I’ll be more effective.”
New York Times, June 28, 2000
BUSH: “First of all, Cinco de Mayo is not the independence day.
That’s dieciseis de Septiembre, and …” MATTHEWS: “What’s that in English?”
BUSH: “Fifteenth of September.”
Source:Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000
“The fact that he relies on facts…says things that are not factual…are
going to undermine his campaign.”
New York Times March 4, 2000

50

A damn sight better than the man who wants to be the leader of the free world. As would just about everyone I know, not to mention a good 95% of the people holding public office.

Call me crazy, but I do believe the ability to communicate effectively in one’s own language to be a sign of intelligence. I especially value it in my leaders, whose job it is to communicate effectively and accurately, as well as understand the communications of others.

In addition, I believe that one’s ability to speak clearly and effectively says a great deal about one’s abiltiy to think similarly.

Unlike a strange contingent of folks I’ve noticed lately, I do not believe extreme intelligence to be a handicap in my president.

It is said of Dubya that he is a very decisive man. Give him the bare minimum of facts, an a b, or c choice, and he will pick one and forget about it, never to return to the question again. Some people seem to admire this quality. I can’t imagine why. It has been my observation that people who operate in this fashion are not terribly bright; intelligent people will see the shades of gray, the different aspects to an argument. Perhaps sometimes this ability to see it all can in fact be paralyizing, but not generally. And it also allows for learning new things. The sort of decisiveness that is attributed to Bush bespeaks a real black and white thinker, and the world is not a black and white place. I do not want a colorblind leader, thank you.

stoid

51

Locally speaking, the other side of that sentiment are the tactics of law enforcement, rightly or wrongly attributed to our republican mayor which come down disproportionately, brutally, and sometimes lethally hard on black men and women, many just going about their business.

52

Not to beat a dead horse, but would you please point me to the post where I flamed Stoidela in here?

53

I was thinking of this post, which struck me as snide. Shall we beat the horse some more?

54

Judging by your performance in this forum, I wouldn’t be so sure of that.

Didn’t we just talk about beating a dead horse?

May your shining example be a beacon of light to our woebegone president-elect.

Your observation has also been that Republicans, non-urban residents and southerners tend to be less intelligent. Your observations are bigoted, stereotypical, not supported by facts, and, most importantly, and thankfully, irrelevant.

Yep, folks. Your eyes aren’t deceiving you. Stoidela said that.

55

Under this set of standards I bet Mao, Hitler and Lenin would shine, but I wouldn’t want them as a leader.

Ok…the horse is going to be a bloody pulp though.

I said nothing in that post. If contrasting the contradictory words of a poster here in GD is now labeled as snide, then I think we are all in trouble. I thought the whole point of this forum was to point out inconsistencies in people’s arguements and then let everyone decided whether or not the point was legitimate.
If you want to see snide, go read the first several posts in this Snide Thread.

I will continue to point out discrepencies and contradicitions for as long as I post here.

56

Exactly.

Not to mention, Gore has a charming African-American woman on his team.

Respectfully,

“Ebony Despot”

57

Freedom go on posting as you choose. I never said you shouldn’t.

Anyhoo. . .
This thread seems to be heading in an irrelevant direction. The OP asks why blacks didn’t vote for Bush. Let us look at the different hypothises put foward so far.

Louie offers this bit of baiting:
**George W. Bush is a hick.

Blacks hate hicks.

Therefore, blacks hate George W.**
Stoidela thinks this may be the reason:
It’s possible that the enthusiasm was a reaction to the Republicans. Maybe African Americans resented being condescended to by the GOP’s transparant attempt to woo them and decided to let them know it.

Opus1 offers this, to which The Tim agreed:
Perhaps it’s just the closeness of the election? No need to get out and vote for Clinton when he’s got a 10-15% lead over Dole, but when the election is a dead heat, every vote counts.
puddlegum gives even more reasons why blacks may have voted against Bush:
**I think one reason for the overwhelming margins in black communities are more sophisticated GOTV efforts in those neighborhoods.
Another reason may have been the church burning hoax, which got a lot of media attention and stirred up alot of feelings.
Another reason is that there have been efforts in TX and Fl to end affirmative action by those state governments.
The NAACP also ran a commercial during the final weeks of the campaign that accused GWB of complicity in the death of James Byrd. **
Tymp adds this:
If I identified a governing dynasty that was in the habit of killing or incarcerating huge numbers of people that bore my skin color, I wouldn’t be too quick to befriend any of them.
mack emphasised some points and added his own:
**Consider Bush’s <snip>his unabashed support of the death penalty. Add to that his priviledged upbringing and the perception that he’s not intellectually equipped for the job.

<snip> consider the southern republicans who fought against civil/voting rights tooth and nail. Consider Trent Lott’s <snip> and Bob Barr’s <snip> speeches to the Council of Conservative Citizens. <cut> consider racial profiling as practiced by law enforcement under republican administrations in NY and NJ, not to mention the Diallo, Dorismund, and Louima horror stories.**

Danimal comes from this angle:
Most black voters, just like most white voters, vote for a specific party mostly out of habit, with little knowledge of the individual candidates and with a caricatured view of the opposing party. I doubt anything specific to George W. Bush provoked them, although Bush’s miserable performance in the debates certainly didn’t convince anyone to come over to his side.

Tymp weighs in again:
While I agree with you that many votes are cast out of simple-minded loyalty, the efforts of organizations like the NAACP and CEDP cannot be discounted in this discussion. <snip>While the CEDP speaks no flattering words of Al Gore, G. W. Bush’s record has made him quite an easy target of their criticism.
stuffinb adds:
The general perception in the black community, is that the republican party favors the rich (of which blacks make up a small percentage). <snip>
The other issue is who’s courting that vote. Republicans tend to write off the black vote. <Major cut>

Biggirl states:
**<snip>Social programs
Abortion
Death penalty
Taxes
Affirmative action
Racial profiling
Health care issues

Republicans stand on the wrong side of the ideological divide on all of these issues<cut>**

smilla comments on ideology:
**I think you guys are missing the point here. It’s not so much Democrat vs. Republican as it is liberal ideology vs. conservative ideology. **

My point in reposting all of this? To get back to the debate, which has been sidetracked. Is it ideology? Is it blind loyalty? Can it be that blacks heard each candidates stand on the issues and voted in what they believe to be their own self-interest? Do blacks think Bush is a hick, so therefore did not vote for him? Do blacks think Bush is stupid?

Maybe we should see what black attitudes are, nationwide. This is what I’ve been trying to do.

58

Bush kissed Oprah, so he must like blacks. Gore didn’t kiss Oprah. He was too busy sucking the fillings out of Tipper’s mouth.

Those kisses were two of the most memorable pictures of the campaign for me.

59

My view, limited as it may be, is that Bush is seen as someone who is far too willing to execute prisoners even where there may be new evidence suggesting innocence or implying that the legal process leading to conviction was seriously flawed in some manner. As the majority of death row inmates are black, one can see how the perception (real or not) that Bush is willing to execute them rather than investigate the possibility of innocence or error because of their skin color might arise.

Which is a long-winded way of saying what Tymp said.

As for me, I think he’s a narrow-minded overprivileged whiner beholden to the gun and oil lobbies who thinks the rest of the world is just like Texas (or ought to be) and will make the US (or at least himself) the laughingstock of the international community. But I could be wrong…

jr8 “not that I’m real happy about Gore either, mind you”

“Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.”
– George Bernard Shaw

60

The majority of death row inmates are not black.