Another fine theory down the tube.
OTOH, if there exists a general perception that they are, we’re still in business.
But probably not. :wally
jr8
biggirl left me out of her recap post (and stuffinb too). Agree or not, at least it wasn’t as tangential as discussing Bush’s intellect or lack thereof. Maybe you just got tired of typing.
Anyway, I’ll expand a little on my original point. I think that the Democratic Party has really taken the black vote for granted. To this point, it seems not to have hurt them politically. They still get 90% of the black vote.
I’m basing this opinion on the observation I made earlier. That is, “black values” are not so dissimilar from “white values,” but that the votes translate very differently. That what what I was trying to say when presenting my opinion that folks in the black community hold beliefs and opinions very similar to whites. You could set up an experiment to demonstrate this.
Take 10 different political issues of the day. Take a scientific poll of 1500 blacks and 1500 whites. Report the results based on race only (not revealing which results represented which race)–not political party, gender, etc… I’d be willing to bet that an observer looking at the poll results could not tell you which was the “black” thinking and which was the “white” thinking on 8 of the 10.
But given the similarities on, say, 8 of 10 issues, why is it that 90% of the blacks polled will support the Democrat? Is it because those 2 issues which do show a race gap are so important that they totally swamp the similarities that might lead blacks to consider Republicans (who they might even agree with to a large extent) on the other 8 issues? I don’t know.
Back to why I think the Democrats take the black vote for granted. They don’t have to sell themsleves to the black community if they know 90% support is theirs no matter what they do. Why should the Democrats make an effort to really speak to those other 8 issues when they know all they have to do is say a few code words and send out the activists to rally support? The Democratic mantra is not to try to change black opinion, but to rally them to the polls.
The Republicans, on the other hand, have the onerous task of trying to change entrenched opinions and voting habits. It is very hard. Frustrating, too, especially when a black person will agree with 80% of your platform yet consistently vote for the opposition. The Republicans are held to a nigh-impossible standard. Take the latest convention for example. Republicans “paraded” blacks–made sure blacks were represented and shown to be involved in the Republican campaign. They didn’t just pick them up off the street; these were actual blacks active in the Republican Party or supportive of Republican politics. Well, the Republican Party was pilloried for this! But what would the reaction have been if there were no blacks at the convention? I don’t even have to answer that.
So, if having blacks in the forefront is bad, and not having blacks in the forefront is bad, then the Republicans automatically lose no matter what. Of course, this probably doesn’t casue the Democrats to shed any tears, but the standard is unfair, nonetheless.
I realize that my “8 out of 10” poll results are just my opinion, and that I have based much of my argument on that opinion. I’m sure some out there may disagree with how the opinions would fall out. I’m basing my projection on my observations put forth in my first post, which, in a nutshell, claim that what people see as “black political thought” is skewed based on the headlines and Democratic activists, not based on the grass roots of black communities.
according to This, 46% death row inmates are white, 43% are black, another 9% Hispanic and the rest are other. Which means that the majority of death row inmates are minorities, and blacks are specifically much over represented (as opposed to their distribution in the population at large). So, while the statement ‘death row inmates are mostly black’ is not correct, it IS correct to maintain that they are overrepresented and the majority are minority background.
I want to agree that most blacks that I know are conservative. (I live in Louisiana)
I actually asked several of my black coworkers why they were so pro-Gore and anti-Bush when it seemed that they agreed with Bush more often. The question was something like this, “So you are a gun owning, anti abortion, anti gay rights, anti drug, anti crime christian conservative. Why are you a strong Gore supporter?”
The answer I got from all 3 persons was “I just don’t trust Bush/Republicans.”
They declined to explain further. If this was because they couldn’t explain or because they didn’t care to discuss it futher with a white boy I don’t know.
And, if you just look at Texas (yea, we saw that George was only the governor, so wasn’t responsible for the sentencing etc, etc, etc, etc, but the OP was looking for reasons blacks may loathe GWB) This shows that in Texas, over 40% of death row inmates are black, 36.6% are white, and 22% Hispanic.
Sorry divemaster, I didn’t leave you out on purpose. And I did put in stuffinb.
I like your polling idea. I think personal opinion is getting in the way of objective thinking here in this thread. Also, the question of whether Bush is perceived as stupid in the black community does have relevance in this debate.
I can tell you what my circle of black friends think, but that would not give a nationwide picture of black attitudes on the issues.
When I get home tonight I’ll renew my search for polls on this subject. Or someone can look up such polls or studies now and save my lazy butt the trouble.
I hate to introduce factual issues to Great Debates, but what ARE the turnout numbers? The only things I’ve seen that point to HIGH turnout are anecdotal: “The lines here at this one polling place are very long; turnout must therefore be high.” The national turnout numbers are fairly low.
What’s the evidence that black voters turned out in greater numbers than usual?
Actually, as far as intelligence goes, the three above WERE intelligent. As much as I despise the man, Lenin was known to be a extremely intelligent as a child, and the smartest child in his family.
And I didn’t mean any offense in bringing up Thurmond and the Dixiecrats. I was merely asking a question. That does NOT mean all democrats were for Civil Rights and all Republicans were against them, or vice versa.
That was my point exactly.
hi wring. The ACLU site I checked ( http://www.aclu.org/executionwatch.html )gives a percentage of 36%. I wonder why the discrepancy between your site’s 43%? I think the 43% may be the overall percentage from 1972-present, while 36% is the current percentage.
Your link indicates that while blacks have comprised 43% of death row inmates, they only account for 35% of those actually executed. Whites, represented by 46% of death row inmantes, account for 56% of those actually executed. Interesting.
I’m not suggesting that there is not a racial component to the U.S. justice system. I mainly wanted to point out the assertion, which I hear often, that blacks are the majority race on death row is incorrect. Certainly, the fact that blacks are over-represented relative to overall population percentage suggests that there may be a problem. How that actually translates into votes, I’m not sure. It certainly can’t help Republicans. I don’t see how it helps Gore either, by that matter.
This is particularly disturbing when one considers that only 12% of the Texas population are black.
divemaster,
You’re looking at total executions. The figures offered by wring cover death row inmates in Texas.
My site does seem to do aggregate totals, so individual years’ flucutation would account for the difference. The relative percentages executed may be a factor of many things - ranging from how long ago was the conviction (for example, if the whites have been on death row longer, the expectation would be that they’d be executed first) to stuff of more detail (perhaps, and this is not an accusation, the cases for the whites being executed had fewer prodedural and appealable issues? - which could lead to many interesting theories).
While I’ve stayed out of the main discussion (I’m not black, so I wouldn’t presume to speak ‘for’ them), I feel I should point out this observation:
Democrats aren’t against things like lower taxes. THey disagree with REpublicans as to how to spend tax dollars. So,while a Republican may be in favor of say “lessening EPA restrictions and taxes on Businesses” this may not be a priority for those who don’t own big businesses.
I presented the data on the death penalty to provide for some factual data on demographics on death row .
Warning, thispost will be high on opnion and supposition, please keep that inmind if responding
That’s not really true. The Democratic party nearly always make an effort to reach out to the black community, something the republicans have only recently began to imitate. The key is consistency. Much like the GOP ignores california, they’re perceived at ignoring minority and women voters as well.
It’s not really code words that do it, it’s the outreach, though I do admit I’ve seen examples of race baiting. The thing is, the Dems have a history of supporting social programs, that while not really neccesary for all in the black community, do in fact tend to increase “quality of life” experience in the black community.
A good example of this would be aftershool programs, community rec centers and the like. Most of these programs disappeared under the Reagan/Bush administrations. An example of the percieved supporting the rich, while taking modest improvements from poor communities. Here in California we had a fight over this recently with Midnight basketball.
It was a program to get kids off the streets between certain hours and in center where they could be reached by by mentoring programs. It was highly succesful, and studies showed a corresponding decrease in crimes. Attempts to get the program expanded throughout calif was succesfully blocked by republicans.
The problem with that was, it appeared to be window dressing. Remember the play it got on the news. It seemed and was received as a ploy. Again it’s going to take a consistent out reach effort by the GOP, if things are to change.
What’s unfair? You can trace demeocratic outreach efforts back all the way to FDR. The repubs came late to the party and they’re paying for it.
I put that in to mainly say that I agree with you, but question your 2 issues. One of the things about issues is phrasing. FI, in california when 209 (the ballot initiative which ended AA in Calif) was in discussion, polls differed greatly in public opinion on the ballot based on how questions were asked. See #4 on this cite
biggirl Hey finding out you’re form NY, explains it sufficiently for me. BTW, any challengers emerging against Gulliani?
Anyone else find it at all ironic or amusing that here we are, a bunch of people, almost entirely white, trying to answer this question?
I wish there were more people of color on this board, for instances just like these, so we could get The Straight Dope.
Not that I would think one person’s reasoning would speak for the entire race’s; just as I wouldn’t presume to speak for why all caucasians do anything in particular.
You’re right Millosarian, so far counting myself I think there are only 4 blacks participating in this dicussion(and even we don’t agree, or at least biggirl doesn’t 
). Anyone know how many there are actually the board?
Well, as a person of color, I can offer this. Most black people I know are extremely liberal; however, most black people I know live in cities. Blacks I’ve met from the 'burbs or even guys I know in the military or the ROTC are pretty conservative. Maybe it’s not so much race as location (there was another thread on city Dems versus rural Repubs, I forget where it was and my computer’s slow so I’m not going to even try to look it up, sorry). This is, no doubt, a big factor, but I think stuffinb pretty much summed it up with his recounting of Democratic vs. Republican history of reaching out to the black community. People vote for whoever they think will best represent their interests. Tax cuts for the wealthy, offshore drilling, and reductions in government spending on social programs and education (god, I sound like a campaign ad!) aren’t really high on the agendas of most blacks I know.
Despite many things that I think and feel concerning the relative merits of the two candidates, I suspect the primary explanation for the pattern observed by the OP is that the race was shaping up to be very close and therefore the respective parties pulled out all the Get Out the Vote stops. The Democratic party version of that pulled black Democratic voters who might not otherwise have voted to the polls in larger than normal quantities. This is a population that tends to undervote in the absence of such endeavors.
Here is a totally unscientific poll of Biggirl’s friends and family. Biggirl had a very good time conducting this poll. She got to tell her girlfriend’s husnband “Don’t wanna talk to you, Rob, your white.” and actually mean it.
Let me point out that Biggirl’s family consists of both American blacks and Hispanics, specifically Puerto Ricans.
Biggirl’s first question was: Did you vote for Bush? (Hey, I learned about assuming things right here in this thread)to which 100% answered no.
Why?
This is where it got interesting. My father’s side of the family all had no better reason than the kneejerk “I just don’t trust Republicans.” I should also point out that my stepsisters did not vote. They are both too busy “Keeping It Real”, if you know what I mean.
An aunt and 2 people in my husband’s family associated the Republican party with Rudolph Giuliani. There is no love lost between minorities in this city and it’s mayor.
Everyone else gave specific issues (abortion, gun control, economic policies and race relations where brought up a lot.)
Everyone, and I mean everyone --including Rob, who just could not stay out of the conversation-- made a comment on Bush’s intelligence.
This is what I did instead of searching the 'net for real studies. My totally unscientific and completely biased survey consisted of 14 people. You probably learned more about the kind of people my friends and family are than you did national attitudes of blacks toward G. W. Bush.
Some clarifications on the Texas Death Penalty System.
The Constitutional, legislative and regulatory structure of Texas’ State Govt. is a bit libertarian. The Governor’s executive powers are limited. Budgets, general policy, stuff like that. The Legislature (and thus the State Judiciary’s interpretations of the law) hold the balance of the power.
The current death penalty appeals process was revised and enacted under Gov. Bush’s predecessor, Democratic Governor Ann Richards. She opposed the new procedures. The Texas State Legislature, Democratic by a significant margin, overruled her. The “will of the people”, or some such.
You know, the “Democratic Process” the Loser keeps harping on?
The Governor of Texas can only stay an execution. He/she cannot commute or pardon a death row prisoner; only the appelate judiciary can do this.
So please quit blaming the Governor of Texas and the Republican Party for “all the executions”!
The Governor’s executive powers are limited, by our State’s Constitution, and specifically so where Death Row prisoners are concerned, and were done so by a Democratic State Legislature.
If you want to fix the blame, then fix it upon us goofy, inbred, gun-totin’, god-fearin’, tobaccy-chawin’, cruel-to-animals-meat-eating redneck Texans.
[Sarcasm Mode: ON]
And if you don’t like it, tough leather pardner! Keep your opinion, and yourself, up there in Yankeeland. Every county in Texas still has a $500 bounty on Yankee carpet baggers on the books, and I’ve been keepin’ up with my target practice, and sure could use the extra money with Christmas comin’ on.
Don’t run; you’ll only die tired.
[Sarcasm Mode: OFF]
My sources, not citeable here, are an article from Time magazine from over a year ago (before Gov. Bush had even cinched the party nomination) and a CNN piece. Both were near enough identical as to make no real difference.
Milo: you’re bad, man. Really bad. Never change! 
Freedom: reload and shoot again; they’re still kickin’.