ExTank
<HIGH FIVE>
::running for another thread QUICK::
The Govnuh of Texas most certainly has the power to stay, and to further recommend that the sentence be commuted. The Guvnah has never elected to do so.
stoid
As a point of curiosity, just how “Texan” is the Bush family, really? GWB Sr. seems to spend a lot of time in Maine, and I wouldn’t have thought he had much of a Texan accent…
jr8
ahem. quote by me just above: “While I’ve stayed out of the main discussion (I’m not black, so I wouldn’t presume to speak ‘for’ them), …”
I merely posted links to specific demographic information regarding the racial stats on folks on death row, and specifically for Texas (while pointing out the yadayada GWB is not the high executioner stuff), and made a comment about Dems not necessarily being ‘against tax cuts’.
carry on.
Well…
They are at LEAST as Texan as Gore is a Tennesean and more than Hillary is a New Yorker
C’mon…
The old Bush’s got ragged on about this when he was President. When he lost and had to pick a state in which to live, they picked Texas. I think we are seeing a strange breed of politician taking over the scene as our world gets more mobile. After a life of national politics, I think some of these guys have trouble considering any place but DC home.
Thanks for the thoughtful response to my opinions, stuffinb. I only have a couple of comments. First, that is a very good point about the way poll questions are presented. It is very difficult to poll for a “true” reflection of voter opinion on complex or controversial issues because wording subtelties can insert bias or elicit responses that are difficult to interpret. Such is the nature of the beast, I guess.
I still contend that Republicans are being held to a very difficult standard concerning the presence of blacks within the party. Sure, there is a lot of history to overcome, but I submit that the Republicans are acting in good faith when making sure black Republican presence is high-profile. Just because it is part of an effort to get votes doesn’t make the effort less than authentic. Almost everything either political party does is an effort to get votes.
I don’t think the cynicism I’ve seen lately regarding this issue is warranted. I realize that history is not easily forgotten and this adds to the cynicism; but at some point, people should give credit to the Republican party for reaching out to minority communities. They are trying very hard to show that Republican political philosophy does not have to be anathema to the black community.
I’m afraid that what will happen if voting patterns stay they way there are is that the Republicans will eventually give up and stop making the effort. This, I feel, will be
to the detriment of both the Republican Party and the black community. I think positive reinforcement of earning higher percentages of the black vote will do wonders to encourage Republicans to keep reaching out and increasing their efforts to speak to black voters (as individuals, not as a voting block).
(White guy talking out of his ass here)
I do agree that there is a substantial segment of the GOP that is doing just what you say, and should be encouraged and applauded. But there is also a strong segment with a strongly-negative history and present that is more of a controlling influence on the party’s image and even policies today. I suspect that’s what most African-American voters see today in the GOP, and it would repel me too if I were one.
The real reach-out efforts, for instance giving full credit for sincerity to that display at the convention, are just going to have to continue if they are going to look sincere as an entire party. Even that won’t be possible at all as long as the people representing the face of the party are old segregationists and race-baiters like Lott, Barr, Helms, Thurmond, DeLay, ad nauseam.
For credibility, not only is the party going to have to be definitively “reconquered” by the moderates from the rightists, but there are going to have to be some real results in party affiliation that can be built on. Blacks aren’t going to think the GOP is more aligned with their interests, or even “safe”, unless they have other genuinely-converted blacks to talk to and convince them it’s in their interests.
FWIW, I suspect that Black Night at the Convention, or whatever it was called, was looked at by many blacks as simple, crude pandering rather than a genuine reachout effort anyway. Camera pans of the delegates showed virtually none who weren’t already on the podium showing how “diverse” the party is. Yes, there were a few black Republican officials up there, but they can easily be dismissed (as I do) as essentially opportunists. JC Watts, for instance, would still be a junior member of a large black House caucus if he were a Democrat, but he’s gotten a lot farther in his career by BEING the black Republican caucus. Colin Powell didn’t even pick a party until he left the military. And who is there at lower levels working their way up?
It’s also worth noting how they presented their “minority” speakers. The sole Hispanic speaker came on stage to the tune of “La Bamba”, while Kellyanne Fitzpatrick from Fox News got “American Woman”. A class act, there.
jr8
“The White House has always attracted the mentally ill.”
– Secret Serviceman Vincent Charles, explaining why security was heightened around the White House
Interesting post by the person who polled her family and friends, I would be interested to know if they would have voted for any Republican or was it just GWB they objected to?
Stoidela, that is flat out not true. Just earlier this year, Bush granted a stay of execution in a death penalty case where the convict’s lawyers believed they had new DNA evidence that might exonerate him. There were complaints at the time that Bush was just doing this as a campaign tactic, to burnish his image as a “compassionate conservative.” I don’t know if that’s true, and I humbly suggest that nobody else knows either unless they can see into Bush’s mind. Either way, the statement, “The Guvnah has never elected to do so” is false.
Elvis
I largely agree with the point you make, particularly about the problem with sending messages of inclusion while keeping power in the hands of former segregationists. I only have to quiblle with one comment:
There is a long-standing school of thought among military officers that it is not appropriate for an officer to generate a politial allegience to either party. the duty of an officer is to faithfully serve his Commander-in-Chief, no matter the party affiliation. Some officers even go so far as to not vote in Presidential elections on the premise that it is not proper for the soldier to determine the choice of his commander.
This attitude is not universal, by any means, but it does exist, and I object to anyone casting Colin Powell as an opportunist for adhering to it. There was much speculation about his personal political leaning while he was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, but he declined to affiliate himself with either party. In my mind, he should be applauded for that, not pilloried.
I stand corrected, Suh. The Guvnah has indeed elected to issue a stay of execution, once, during his campaign for President, after receiving lots of criticism for never doing so previously (or since) in the, what is it, hundreds?, of executions that have occurred on his watch.
I hope I can be forgiven for allowing this one to slip under my radar. Especially given the fact that it is almost certain that there was lots of press about it at the time.
You know Stoid that I am not a fan of Bush at all. But, your response here to being corrected on a matter of fact and not opinion, doesn’t really help convince people that Bush is something to be feared.
It would have been better to have said something like “you’re right, he did do one”, instead of the ‘faux’ southern accent and pointing out that it happened during the election, and so on. I mean, we all **knew ** that.
Inaccuracy on either side does nothing to advance debate.
sarcasm on either side does nothing to advance debate.
I try to call it the same thing on either side, it’s partisan and it’s ugly. I have to confess, tho’ it bugs me more when some one on my side does it. I mean, I expect mega dittos from the other side (joking, I’m joking, really)
and it took me two minutes to discover that since 1982, there have been 237 executions in Texas Here Not hundreds on GWB’s watch. Please, hyperbole hurts us.
I don’t disagree with that assessment, but I thnk they should do more to imitate the Dems strategy, hell it wougn’t even be hard, as blacks tend tolive in concentrated groups. Reach out by varius campaigns at the local level would be far more effective than say “window dressing”.
**
The GOP received some praise this year and in recent years past for outreach efforts. However when the GOP has it’s conference to settle on it’s platform, they need to mindful of the image their portraying. It nice to say we’re inclusive, but it’d be even nicer for their platform to express it as well.
I’ve actually read that this is what’s happening. It’s a fatalistic strategy. You can’t undo years of neglect in a couple of years.
Spiritus Your analysis of the officer corp is dead on, political discourse is frowned upon in the upper ranks.
Biggirl Loved your poll, maybe I’ll conduct my own tonight.
Fair enough. I’ll withdraw the remark in his case. Thanks.
What exactly is this death penalty sidebar debate about? During Bush’s tenure as governor many, many people where executed. More people than ever before. Repubs, are we not supposed to hold Bush responsible for what happened under his own governorship? From what I understand, this is one of his many selling points to hard-line conservatives.
Stoid, my man, I’m on your side. But rabid reactionist are not best dealt with with more, um, rabid reactions.
wring, 237 is “hundreds”.
Puddlegum: I believe any Republican’s stance on any issue discussed would not have strayed far from GWB’s. Add to this the long-standing mistrust of Republicans in the minority community, my answer has to be: probably not.
Biggirl, it’s been 237 since 1982- not all of them happened on Bush’s watch, so, no, it isn’t ‘hundreds’.
And I forgot to add:
Plus GWB is stupid. This is my opinion and the opinion of many. This opinion is based on the very words that come out of George’s very own mouth.
Even if his IQ is 160, he gives a very good impression of a stupid person. This is a valid argument against voting for him.
No matter what you guys want to say, the guy was a fighter pilot. Stupid fighter pilots don’t exist due to a very harsh application of Darwinian evolution.
He may be inarticulate, but equating this with stupid is down right ignorant on your part.