Why do I owe Native Americans anything?

jeel, despite the flogging I and others have given you, I’m not going to be the one to deny you your opinion. I hope you don’t think that I’m trying to do that.

What I would like to do is present the facts that American Indians and their form of government is unique, legal, accepted, and sanctioned in American law. They are perfectly legitimate. Your opinion, as I understand it, does not meet those criterion. Yet. It will be a sad day if it ever does.

You are astute in your judgement that many actions in Indian Country are not the American way. Many, if not most, of my clients would probably prefer to be totally independent of the United States, as they once were. Nevertheless, American Indians are great Americans.

They are us, but not of us. They are sovereign, but not independent. They gave us our concept of freedom, but they are not free. Unlike you and me, they must fight daily to preserve their culture and way of life, and unlike almost anyone else in America, they are allowed to attempt to do so, by law. I try hard, every day, to get these concepts across to people who are hardened by inherited opinion and misunderstanding of the basic premises behind the issue. Your tenacity, jeel, indicates to me that you are willing to also learn. If you do, and do so well, I believe your opinion can change. Sometimes people get pissed off at me when I say that, but it is the truth.

kimstu, you um… wouldn’t happen to be interested in coming to Washington, would you? I suspect I could score you a job. You’ll probably wind up getting ripped off, but it looks good on a resume.

Is it possible to be racist against one’s own race? I am only 1/8 Cherokee, the rest is European. My mother is 1/4 Cherokee; both of her parents were also 1/4. I’m not sure how far back i have to go to find a 100% Cherokee ancestor, but he or she definitely existed. And since my mother and her parents were all born in Missouri, then that putative 100% Cherokee ancestor was most likely a survivor of the Trail of Tears or a descendent of one.

(Look up Trail of Tears if you don’t know anything about it. It’s one of the most shameful and disgraceful episodes in American history. Thousands of Cherokees were forcibly removed from their lands in Georgia by the Federal government after gold was discovered and forced to march a thousand miles west to the Ozarks. Thousands died along the way.)

I criticize people, not races. Indians have committed their own share of atrocities. But this thread wasn’t about that.

1 in 8 American Indian adults have diabetes, twice the rate of Caucasians.

From New Mexico State University: “Population Genetics and Diabetes.”

In some American Indian tribes, as many as 50% of the population within those tribes may contract diabetes.

No prob. I read your first response to me and thought, “I know… I thought I said that.” However, when I reread my post, I realized that I wasn’t very clear, so actually, thanks for expounding on it.

That makes sense. I was thinking of genetic tolerance being passed on in an active way, like my measles example, and how improbable that seemed. I didn’t stop to think that a tolerance is passed because the intolerant people were being killed off. (survival of the fittest… duh). Thanks for the insight – I hereby stand corrected.

well im a native american and i would love to see some money from the government but i dont, all the money i get that you think i get from the government i get from my tribe. its all the money the stupid white people spend at our casino, or at our gas stations, or any other income my tribe has. i did just get like $20,000 from avista but thats because they had dams on our land so we filed a lawsuit against them for $40.000.000, and yes when i turned 18 i got like $18,000 but that was also from my tribe that they saved for me. it depends on what tribe your in but some tribes make more money than others. its just laws that as a tribe we can take advantage of because a reservation is its own independent nation and dont have to follow alot of the laws that states have to. and its just natives taking care of there own. so dont worry about your tax money most of that is going to the big bankers, not natives. so yah if the government is handing out money to natives i would love to know where i can get some.

Would you use it for education?

yes we should have more right to our land than the white man because it was stolen from us so it is ours. and another thing not related and im sure every person who reads it is going to hate me. but i dont care, but i will never fight for this country because its run by the white man. say what you want but because of the white man my people were robbed of our land our languages our religions our way of life and many lives in genral. there are only 2.4 million natives left from an estimated 100 million thanks to the genocide that the u.s. government wont take resposibility for. i dont know my own language because it used to be illegal for a native to speak their own language. it was illegal for us to practice our own religion and as kids natives were raised by white men to live like white men. so if you are white and reading this and hate me for what i said, why dont you just pack up and move back to europe. and to all you white men acting like natives and dressing like natives, STOP WE DONT WANT YOU!

Just don’t use any of that money to resurrect zombie threads!

I don’t hate you for what you said. Your ancestors suffered terrible crimes, and you’re still feeling the profound lose those crimes generated. You have every right to be angry.
However here’s the thing. The people alive today in America have ancestors from everywhere. People alive today have nothing to do with your ancestors. They were born here. Even if someone wanted to “go back to Europe” (whatever that means to someone who has never been) they would face significant socio-economic-political emigration barriers. In other words even if you got every white person on board with the idea (never mind all the other perceived races) Europe is already full and probably won’t have them.
So to surmise you have a right to be upset, and the American government a duty to honor it’s treaties and compensate you for the losses you still suffer. However moving back to Europe is not a practical solution for many reasons.

I humbly ask, is there documentation of your ancestral language? People who speak it? If it’s not lost in time, then you can still learn it. It’d be a good way to stick to the jackasses who tried to kill that language. You have a right to be angry, but please use that anger to find healthy positive change for yourself.

Wow! I used to go out of my way to fill up at the tribal gas station. I guess I can quit doing that now. Thanks. I’ll go where it’s most convenient and decidedly not go to the tribal station.

Wow, While I will agree that spending money at a casino is stupid, calling someone stupid because they buy gas is really stupid.

Since you have insulted white people everywhere, I think they should all boycott your gas station for at least 8 generations.

Simply for the record, I’m as much a native of America as you are, I can’t “go back to Europe”, and your position is racist and absurd since even if I did have ancestors who lived in the United States during the relevant time period I still wouldn’t be responsible for their actions let alone those of people who happened to share my skin color. Your rant is similar to the poorly thought out, sophomoric rage that we expect from children.

Most civilized countries, however, do live up to the treaties they signed.

I believe the North Eastern tribes talked about a beast called a Wendigo, which would be a zombie of sorts. :slight_smile:

cda native- Most of the Native holocaust was not caused directly by whites, but by the diseases they had brought with them from Europe that the natives had no biological defenses against. Yes, the US gov’t did some bad things, some terrible things, but that alleged 100 million was done in LONG before the US even existed.

And one of the reasons you have tribal lands at all is because the US gov’t is trying to make up for it’s past.

As someone who grew up around the rez, and whose family worked hard for the native community, you screaming about “stupid whites” is just as bad as whites screaming about “lazy drunk injuns”. Before you cast that aspersion, maybe you should ask yourself what are you doing to help your cousins?

At least.

I can’t go back to Europe - I’d have to go to at least three different countries. :frowning:

As for loss of language, well, that happens. Talk to any immigrant family about it - they hate that their kids/grandkids don’t keep the mother tongue and all the mother land traditions, but circumstances and people change. My grandmother spoke almost exclusively Low German; I speak only a few words of it. I’m not wailing and gnashing my teeth over it, though.

IMO, Native American’s loss of language, is not really on the same level as immigrant loss of their “mother tongue”, etc.

Unless, for example, the Souix had crossed the ocean to take over Germany, and in the process of their physical and cultural genocide against the German people, began to force them to speak the Lakota language.

This kind of argument always amuses me, since it basically boils down to “We’re evil, so we might as well be all the way evil! We just aren’t twirling our mustache hard enough, that’s our problem!”

You owe them because;

  1. Your country is obliged to meet its treaty obligations, otherwise why would anyone treat with you in the future?

  2. You may not have perpetrated the original crimes personally, but you are benefitting from them every second in terms of the land your homes, the services you use, and the business which provide the economic infrastructure which gives you your lifestyle are built upon.

The end result and what you do about it is basically the same, isn’t it?

I don’t recall being consulted when the White Man came galloping into North America X number of centuries ago.