One vote for salsa. I like swing, but I do think beginning salsa is easier to pick up than beginning swing (especially if you haven’t danced before).
Also, women in salsa clubs tend to wear skimpier outfits than they do at swing venues.
Best example so far for the no-dance crowd.
There are a lot of things dancing can do - one is imply confidence.
By the “I don’t do it because I don’t enjoy it” implies selfishness. If you can do it, and your date enjoys it, and you don’t do it cause you are bored with that - that can easily be interpreted by your date as “you aren’t worth doing anything I don’t enjoy.”
See, I’m gonna go the other way here.
I can’t improvise worth a damn, and most techno, hip-hop, or other music that’s primarily beat just gives me a headache. But swing provides enough structure that I can string a series of moves together and not look like a fool. Besides, spinning and dipping a girl is a lot of fun, especially when the move and the chemistry clicks and you pull it off just right. Waltzes aren’t bad either, I’m learning tango (slowly), and salsa has been fun the few times I’ve tried it. Besides, so many guys refuse to dance that it gives me an easy way to make myself stand out just a little. And if you’re interested in a girl, there’s no easier way to signal it than asking her to dance.
Why would you choose to interpret it that way? Why not just see it as having different interests and not expecting your SO to share and participate in all of yours? The selfishness slur can go both ways. Surely you can find activities that you both enjoy instead of selfishly insisting he force himself to participate in one of yours, even if he hates it and is bad at it.
Because it is a skill that I have worked at and loved since I was a small girl. Probably my best loved activity. No, not probably, it IS my best loved activity. (ummm, okay, in public activity :D).
The most magical, close-knit, “soulmate” type relationship I’ve ever had was with my former SO.
We met at dance class. We honed our dancing skills together and took pleasure in our own skills and the skills of our partner, it was a friendship and partnership within a love relationship. A dance partnership has most, if not all of the same requirements that a love partnership has.
Trust, attraction, communication, and ability to compromise and be there for the other person.
In the best relationships, there is at least ONE common interest among the two people involved. When that common interest happens to be dance, it’s as if the relationship is bigger than life and that every aspect of a normal relationship (trust etc) intensified and made better.
Add in all of the reasons many other posters have stated (such as how willingness to dance and be silly shows such an excellent quality of a man’s personality) and that is close to good “why it’s important to me”.
I think this statement rings true for any activity that is important to person A, that person B despises and absolutely WILL NOT DO. Either compromise and indulge in that which your partner enjoys once in a while, or don’t date people that have that want or need in the first place.
Or, you don’t get to chase those who love that which you will not do, and then get all annoyed with them if it is a preference, or even a dealbreaker for them.
Chase those who DO share your interests, likes, and dislikes instead. I’ve seen plenty of female dopers express their extreme dislike of dancing, so it’s not as if those of us who love dancing are the only ones available in your dating pool.
Also, with the OP’s indulgence, I’d like to turn the OP’s question back on the non-dancers and ask Why do many men hate that women like men who can/will dance?
As I said above, don’t choose those women to go after for dating purposes then. It’s not as if it’s a secret that we spring on you when it’s too late. AFAIK, it’s something we dance loving women are pretty damned upfront about (can I say damned in IMHO? :D).
Some of the male dopers, both in this thread and the Pit thread that inspired this one, were complaining that (paraphrased) "oh, it’s like you start off having to pretend you like it, and then further on into the relationship it’s a huge hassle because she’s always hassling you to go dancing’. Again, as this thread, and the Pit thread illustrate, it’s not as if it’s a big secret that we dancers spring on our dating potentials after he’s already in love with us. We pretty much make it clear very early on in meeting the man. (at least I sure do, I apologize to you who’ve been tricked by stealth dancers).
So it seems that the problem has a very simple solution for men who hate dancing. Don’t date, or attempt to date women who love it.
And don’t get all annoyed and insist that it “shouldn’t” be this big a deal and act all put upon because we won’t change our minds, merely drop our wants and needs in this area and allow you to “have us” without the hassle of having to do something for us that we enjoy. There are plenty of other women who don’t have this “flaw”.
You’ve seriously got to be kidding me. This is a bone of contention? We’re arguing about dancing? We’re all supposed to be some smart motherfuckers around here.
I hate dancing. I’ll put up with a slow dance if I must, but they’re like get out of jail free cards. Dancing is just dancing regardless of how strongly one may love it. Swap “dancing” with “painting” and the sentence becomes a little sillier.
It’s one thing, people. If the girl loves to dance, chances are that you’ll know that before oyu get serious. Make known your hatred of dancing or painting or what have you, and that’s it. If it becomes an issue, the relationship is over.
No relationship is worth having a fight over dancing.
Nope you’re way off-base and don’t appear to have read the thread. We’re not “arguing about dancing”. We’re discussing why a large percentage of women love men who dance (and all that entails in the dating world).
And dating, or lack thereof is an entirely human undertaking, as are the frustrations inherent in said undertaking, including “why do I have to X in order to get the girl”. How does that denote “arguing” or not being smart or whatever?
This is the whole point of the OP. This, that is “the girl loves to dance and the potential suitor knows it, doesn’t like it and feels he’s being unfairly shut off from dating dancing girl because he doesn’t dance” is the crux of the issue.
Based upon posts in the Pit thread and some here, it seems the consensus by some is that it’s “not fair” that a large number of women ARE making known their desire to date men who dance or at least have the willingness to try to dance.
Little has been discussed regarding the “dance/don’t dance” within a relationship.
I don’t feel comfortable dancing by myself, but I don’t usually have a problem dancing with a partner. It’s easiest for me to slow dance or dance to club music, even though I’m not really great at either, just more confident than with other types of dancing. But I always need a partner and at least a little alcohol.
I think that LOUNE is shocked that you would think that not dancing is a dealbreaker, and that men who don’t like dancing shouldn’t even try to date women who do. That is a pretty absurd contention. I can understand if dancing is your LIFE, you wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who hates it. But really, in two average lives where dancing is just a pasttime, is it that big a deal? You can’t just allow your SO not participate in your dancing endeavors? It has to come between an otherwise compatible couple?
At the end of the day it would not be a COMPLETE deal breaker but I have to say its a REALLY huge turn off to hear men flat out REFUSE to dance. You can give me all of your flowery worded justifications and smart analogies but this is just one situation where if a man will not dance with his date at a wedding and she wants to (if she doesn’t, great, hang on to her y’all are a match made in heaven) my first and only thought is just going to be “what a loser douchebag”
I’ve been at a wedding where my date wouldn’t dance with me. I should say I’m AWFUL. But dancing is one of those things that you are just going to come up against time and time again as a grown up. People have been doing it for centuries and the trend shows no sign of slowing. It’s so lonely sitting at your empty table after dinner watching everyone else dance with their dates. Luckily my dad was there and he was kind enough to dance with me. With hip arthritis and no rhythm, bless him. We just laughed at ourselves and had fun. I hope my date had fun sitting at the table all alone drinking staring off into space…In an attempt to not look and feel awkward he ended up looking the most awkward of all.
In my own personal life yes. I do NOT consider this a standard dating dealbreaker across the board and have no idea how she would get that from my post.
Now where on earth did either of you see me say that? What I actually said was that men who truly hate dancing and do not want to do it have no right being annoyed at women who understandably are drawn to men who do dance, any more than I have a right to be annoyed at men who are drawn to “normal” Alaskan women who love hunting/fishing/snowmobiling.
Again, where on earth did you see me even remotely hint at such a thing? And again, I’m talking about dating, NOT about two people already involved. Of course I don’t think one SO should be “not allowing” their partner to participate in something the other hates.
I was very clear. I’m talking about some posters in the Pit thread and others here who’ve expressed seeming annoyance at the fact that a lot of women desire men who dance, and act as if it’s somehow a slap in the face to them.
Yes, dating people who fit and mesh with your (collective you) specific wants, needs and interests is going to narrow the dating pool. That’s the POINT. You want someone whose wants, needs, lifestyle, personality and so on meshes with and/or complements your own.
My point was, there’s nothing wrong with those of us who like a particular activity or interest (it doesn’t even have to be dancing) enough so that a partner who doesn’t share or at least have a generous attitude toward that activity is a dealbreaker for us.
Some here are acting as if that’s some sort of personal insult against those who don’t participate in X activity, it’s not it’s just a preference nothing personal.
Nope, you said:
I think that’s pretty much a direct statement that men who hate dancing should not try to date women who love it.
Huh?
That’s not what I was responding to, nor what LOUNE was saying. We are both responding to your above statement that men who hate dancing and are annoyed by being pestered to dance should not date women who like to dance. I don’t think there are any people, as you claim, who are offended that women who love to dance prefer to date men who also love to dance. No one is offended by people having different activity preferences. We are just surprised that it’s so damn important that it’s a dealbreaker, or that anyone is saying it should be, or that a person deserves to be called an asshole for not dancing, etc.
And my point is, dancing is not the sum of a person’s needs, lifestyle, personality and so on. It’s one bloody activity. You can do that one thing on your own without your SO.
Can a person have a generous attitude towards your dancing while not wanting to dance at all themselves? THAT is what the non-dancers in this thread are saying-- that the pro-dancing women are intolerant of men who don’t and won’t. That doesn’t mean they care if you do it; it’s that you want to force them to, and people don’t like that. Understandably.
And it’s not a personal insult to you that your SO doesn’t want to dance. He just doesn’t. It’s not selfish, he’s not an asshole, he’s not disrespecting you. He disliked it before he met you. Don’t get involved with him if you’re going to fight over something so relatively trivial.
Brainiac4 doesn’t like sushi. Once in a while he takes me out to a sushi restaurant. (He usually orders tempura) its a nice gesture on his part to participate in my enjoyment of something I enjoy. When he goes out of his way to do something for me that I enjoy and he really doesn’t - those are the most romantic moments he gives me.
It goes both ways…
He has an annual birthday party each year. Big deal in our house. 40 - 60 people, starts at 3:00 in the afternoon, goes until 3:00 in the morning. I have learned not to hate it, even enjoy it - fifteen years of being with someone can teach you coping mechanisms. And I participate every year willingly because its important to him - because saying “you can have a party, I’m going to my mothers” would make me a selfish bitch. One of the coping mechanisms I have for it is watching him - he really enjoys this party - and I get a lot of joy watching him enjoy the party.
(He doesn’t dance - not the type of dance I really like (he can club dance). He intends to learn, which is good enough. And if I really want to dance, he puts forth a good try).
Seems this reminds me of something - oh, yes, women who like to give head right up until the wedding day. Then the men keep hassling them for it.
Hmm… “if you’d rather women did not insist that you dance, then write off dating anyone who likes dancing and make it clear from the start” vs. “if dancing’s important to you, don’t even bother to try to ‘convert’ non-dancers” sounds more like a discussion as to who should brush off who and when, but agreeing that there should be a brush-off at some point…
ISTM the thread has drifted from explanation (“because some women see dancing as a sign of expressiveness, sensuality, unselfconsciousness, etc., and besides they enjoy the activity and want someone who’ll share it” – tells why, does not impugn the character of the nondancer) in the direction of justification (“why should I pretend to like it if I don’t?” / “why won’t you at least make a gesture for her sake?”).
Some write: “if s/he likes something and you don’t, compromise and do SOME of it for his/her sake or to fit in, don’t be selfish.”
On the other pole of that axis, others write: “you obviously share some OTHER interests, likes, dislikes, experiences; so what if there’s one thing you don’t, why get hung up on it and make the other person do it to ‘prove’ s/he cares?”
I somehow don’t think we’re gonna get any sort of resolution, here…
Now where on earth did either of you see me say that? What I actually said was that men who truly hate dancing and do not want to do it have no right being annoyed at women who understandably are drawn to men who do dance, any more than I have a right to be annoyed at men who are drawn to “normal” Alaskan women who love hunting/fishing/snowmobiling.
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Did you note the “then”? Did I really need to add the obvious “if it’s going to be such a heartache for you that they desire this activity etc”? If not and the man is truly going to date a woman who clearly loves dancing with a generous and open heart toward that which she loves. Generous meaning he doesn’t pull the old “bait and switch” to get his way. Then sure go for it.
This is mere logic. If a person hates X, don’t go where X is. Go where Y is. If they hate X and still go where X is, and expect Y, They don’t have a right to go whining about it and acting as if it’s the X-lovers fault that they’re unhappy, or can’t date or whatnot.
Of course I don’t think one SO should be “not allowing” their partner to participate in something the other hates.
This was a reply to your questions:
No of course I wouldn’t disallow an SO to participate, or not participate as they wished. In other words I wouldn’t tell someone in a relationship what to do in this case. But I’m not talking about reasonable SOs who would generously share and compromise and dance with their partners. I’m talking about those complaining about women who dance and declared that they would absolutely REFUSE to dance, hated it, couldn’t/wouldn’t learn etc. If those people got into a relationship with someone who did love dancing without disclosing this fact, then that is also the type of person I’m saying needs to simply not try dating a dancer in the first place.
And again, like I said in my last post, this goes for anything, not just dancing. If a person has something about them that you don’t like, know you can’t live with or change, DON’T date them.
I was very clear. I’m talking about some posters in the Pit thread and others here who’ve expressed seeming annoyance at the fact that a lot of women desire men who dance, and act as if it’s somehow a slap in the face to them.
Excuse me but how is my statement that you quote above “expressed seeming annoyance at the fact that a lot of women desire men who dance, and act as if it’s somehow a slap in the face to them”. any different from your statement of “men who hate dancing and are annoyed by being pestered to dance should not date women who like to dance?” other than mine is slightly milder?
Again, this is mere logic, why would someone WANT to date another person whom they KNEW was going to want to share an activity with them and was going to be asking, throughout the years that their SO do so. To then turn around and be all annoyed and angry when your SO does ask you to participate in this activity is dishonest at best. Why would a person bring this into a relationship?
There is a huge difference between saying “men who don’t dance shouldn’t date women who do” and men who behave in an annoyed, whiny, put upon, potentially dishonest way toward women who dance shouldn’t date them".
In your statement above it is a clear case of a person’s attitude, as demonstrated by Priceguy in the pit thread and other men I’ve met IRL. They are truly affronted at the other person’s wants and needs and if they don’t measure up to their own (in this particular case dancing, but as I’ve said several times, this is just one example). It’s as if they have the attitude of “I want that person and who cares what they want, they’ll change”. In this case where “they’ll change” equals "oh, I’ll pretend I like to dance to get a date but once we’re dating or married I’ll act like an asshole every time the subject comes up and I’ll get my way anyway.
Again, why not just date a group of women where this subject isn’t going to be an issue?
First off, no one has been called an asshole for not dancing. And I haven’t seen anyone say that it “should be a deal breaker”. Sheesh.
Secondly Priceguy has had just that sort of attitude toward those women who prefer men who dance, that of acting as if it’s completely odd and absurd that some people have that much of a connection to a specific activity and acting as if it’s some sort of personal dating vendetta against non-dancing men.
Yes, dating people who fit and mesh with your (collective you) specific wants, needs and interests is going to narrow the dating pool. That’s the POINT. You want someone whose wants, needs, lifestyle, personality and so on meshes with and/or complements your own.
That’s you. And really, you kind of make my point here. How do you know what level of importance in a given person’s life a specific activity holds? (once again, doesn’t have to be dancing, for example my fanatically addicted fishing/hunting/snowmobiling fellow Alaskans come to mind).
And as for dancing, do it on your own? Other than the simple “shake your butt at a club” type, it does take a partner. And frankly, I don’t wanna be ballroom up close and personal with a whole lot of strangers. It’s much more fun with one’s SO.
My point was, there’s nothing wrong with those of us who like a particular activity or interest (it doesn’t even have to be dancing) enough so that a partner who doesn’t share or at least have a generous attitude toward that activity is a dealbreaker for us.
For me personally? The point is moot, I wouldn’t date a non-dancer in the first place. And overall I can’t speak for other dancers. But I would think it would be on a case by case basis and again, wouldn’t involve the old bait and switch or the nasty whiny put upon attitude if asked to dance. As a few other posters have described, I would think that a generous attitude would, at the very least, involve dancing at specific events like a cruise, someone’s wedding and so on. It certainly would not involve pouting and acting as if you’d been asked to give up a kidney, particularly if you’d behaved as if you thought dancing was just dandy up until when you “had her”.
I don’t get how “prefer to date men who dance” is getting translated to “intolerant of men who don’t and won’t”.
EXACTLY! And men who approach and ask for dates from women who dance under false pretenses are doing just his, only sneakily.
Again, if they don’t want to be bugged to dance, for those who are in relationships, then they shouldn’t have acted as if it were okay while they were courting the girl. It’s not the dancing, it’s the dishonesty. For those who aren’t in relationships but who are merely in the dating arena,
No one is forcing anyone to do anything, other than play fair that is. Meaning don’t pretend you like it to get her number and then six months later throw a hissy fit because she wants you to dance at someone’s wedding.
Some here are acting as if that’s some sort of personal insult against those who don’t participate in X activity, it’s not it’s just a preference nothing personal.
Um what part of “this is a deal breaker for me” didn’t get get through here? I have no intention of getting involved with a man who doesn’t dance. Just as if I saw a man light up a cigarette, I’d turn around and walk away no matter how hot he was, or how much he was smiling at me, yes even if he could dance.
Maybe it’s terminology that’s messing us up. To me, a deal breaker is that which would prevent me from dating a person in the first place. So of course I wouldn’t get involved with a person who would behave that way regarding my dancing. And to me “dating” means that beginning stage, where the man is first getting the girl’s number and they’re going out on the very first couple of dates. Of course if you’re already in a relationship you need to either cut him loose or let him alone.
I am not discussing those already in a LTR, I never have been. I’m talking about entering the dating arena. As in the non-dancer is out looking for women to meet and get numbers from. And the dancer being out with her friends at a club tearing it up on the dance floor.
I’ve already answered this, but again, of course if one is already in a relationship you’re not going to fight. That is IF this was something agreed to before the relationship got off the ground. Again, if this is a case of bait and switch, all bets are off.
Now, this I don’t get AT ALL. Why do so many… I don’t want to limit this to women, because I’ve seen it in men, but really I’ve observed it far more often in women… people act like there’s a rope tying them and their SO together and they must participate in what the other enjoys, or they are an asshole if they want to cut the rope for a day?
Why would going to your mother’s, or shopping, or doing anything else make you a bitch if you are bowing out of something you don’t enjoy? What is so wrong with saying you go have your fun with that, and I’ll go do something else, and we’ll have fun together with something else later? It almost seems like it’s not ok to have fun when not in the other’s presence.
Um, she’s talking about his birthday party, which, unless he’s somehow different than the rest of us, is only happening once a year. He’s got 40+ people coming over to the house, all wishing him a happy birthday, asking about her, and he’s got to tell everyone she doesn’t like parties and ran off to her mothers? Obviously, he’s not going to tell the truth, but presuming that each year sees overlaps in the guest list, people are going to notice.
If gritting one’s teath once a year is overly binding, then really, what is the point of being with someone?