I can only speak for myself, but I simply don’t get enjoyment out of dancing. I have nothing against it, but it’s just not an interest for me.
You think it’s odd that women might do things they don’t necessarily personally like in order to satisfy societal expectations?
Really?
Spoken like someone who has never waxed.
You miss the point. My criticism is of your attempt to reach a broad conclusion based on “certain“ subcultures. If you did a survey of every (or at least most) subcultures, encompassing all or at least a representative cross section of society, I wouldn’t have a problem. What I have a problem with is you picking out very specific subcultures, and attempting to extrapolate from there.
I notice you left off gay men from that repetition of the list.
And I know this board skews old, but even the olds here should be at least tangentially aware of how huge EDM is, and has been since the turn of the century, right?
And my response is that they’re a broad spread of subcultures, when it comes to demographics. And other posters have brought up others.
So no, I don’t need to survey all/most subcultures. Sufficient data points exist there already to show that whatever the phenomenon is, it isn’t universal - which was the entire point.
I think this post hits closest to the truth. Remember, boys are typically more drawn to motion and better at tracking objects starting at about ten weeks of age (too lazy to track down a cite, but if you want to Google it, studies have been done on the differences between boys and girls starting at a very young age, and this is a key difference). In many, probably most, sports, there’s something about men’s bodies that provide an advantage over the typical woman: it calls for accuracy and aim, or it calls for upper body strength, or longer limbs, or bigger hearts and lungs.
As far as I know (as a non-dancer), there’s not much about dancing that makes it easier for men to pick up and get good at as opposed to women. When a man is used to picking sports up easily, and looking manly and impressive as the women struggle, then purely being on even footing with a woman is going to make the sport less attractive. I say this not in a sexist way, merely to indicate that of course we’re drawn to the sports where we feel good at, or at least competent at, the sport fairly quickly.
If there aren’t very many men dancing - something you agreed is true - then who or what is compelling these women to involuntarily dance?
I don’t see how the first part is related to the second part.
And I answered the second part in the very first sentence you quoted.
I get that women sometimes do things men want them to do, simply because men want them to do those things. But if men aren’t dragging women to dance clubs and out onto the dance floor, then what is making women go to dance clubs and hit the floor? After dinner on a Friday, women just automatically think to themselves, “whelp, I better get to the club”? Are dance-averse women just going to clubs to be supportive of their dancing girlfriends?
Hoping you can be more specific than just “women dance because society expects them to”.
I don’t like to dance because people will laugh at me.
I don’t like to sing in public for the same reason
Eh, I am. At least, I’ve seen a bajillion times where the girls/women will all just get out and dance with each other when the guys aren’t interested in hitting the floor. It’s not as though the guys are sitting around saying “Get up there and dance for me!”, it’s just the women being “Come dance with me… no? Fine, we’re going anyway because we want to have fun” Anywhere from clubs to bars to weddings to beach gatherings to dorm room drinking sessions. I can safely say the number of times I’ve seen the reverse is zero but it’s a big planet so I’m sure it’s happened.
To be fair, the best way to get me to dance is to ply me with a couple drinks from the bar first so I can’t imagine it’s any different when everyone is soaked in MDMA.
Women absolutely do stuff to meet social expectations of other women. Even stuff that we think of as “attracting the other sex”. Lots of women dress up to impress other women.
But i think we have demonstrated both that
- in mainstream American culture, more women than men dance
- there are lots of other cultures, including several American subcultures, where this isn’t true
So i think we can conclude that it isn’t something intrinsic to being male or female, but something cultural.
I think all the lists that say things like this
Basically, that women are prettier, are just straight men confused by their personal attraction to women’s bodies. Dance requires much of the same coordination that men excel at in all sorts of sports.
I think “it’s not considered manly” (by mainstream American culture) is likely on-target. That would certainly explain why gay men are more comfortable dancing – they have already “failed” at “manly”. And of course any subculture will have different cultural expectations.
But i dunno. Personally, i think exploring which cultures do and don’t show this trend is the most likely way to piece together data suggesting an answer to the op’s question.
I don’t entirely agree with this. It requires coordination, yes, but not the same coordination. The most popular men’s sports typically involve a ball or something similar: football, soccer, basketball, baseball, hockey, etc. In contrast, sports that tend to require coordination of the body (yoga, running, gymnastics, swimming, dancing) tend to have a greater proportion of females gravitating towards such sports.
When young, girls in the West are more likely to be trained in dance than boys. Dance is emphasized for girls in an attempt to offset the gender disparity in athletics. So, it should be no surprise that as adults, females are generally more confident than males when it comes to dancing. That disparity in confidence is reflected in relative enjoyment.
I didn’t say men I said societal expectations.That includes other women too - their peers, their moms. And then there’s the entire media industry pushing the notion.
I don’t see why it needs more specificity than that.
I mean, for one thing, this picture you paint of women going dancing in groups by themselves is a fairly recent phenomenon, so you have to see how that means it’s obviously a cultural construct, right?
It’s not just that - like I said, there’s also the whole Dance Moms fame-seeking aspect of it all.
But I agree with your overall point that early exposure drives the whole socialization aspect.
Tell that to the rugby coaches now looking at using ballet in coaching for their teams.
I’ve noticed that most of the replies in this thread have been interpreting the “like dancing” in the title as “like to dance.” This is probably the most reasonable and obvious meaning, but it’s not the only one. Someone who “likes dancing” might also mean someone who enjoys watching dancing (e.g. they like attending the ballet, or movies or stage musicals with lots of dancing).
Do more women than men “like dancing” in that sense (I honestly don’t know, though it wouldn’t surprise me), and if so, why?
Leaving aside that the OP is clearly referencing dance participation based on the examples in the linked thread…
I’m thinking there’s one specific category of dancing for an audience that’s missing from your list, that’s going to be skewed in a male direction on the numbers …
Speaking as a member of the subculture Women Who Like To Dance, I would say that straight white men don’t dance because the cultural expectation is for them to be physically stiff, upright, unrevealing and unemotional except for aggression or anger. This makes for unpleasant and awkward dancing.
I remember an interview with an actress who was playing a man. She said the hardest challenge was to constantly remember not to move her shoulders. White men don’t move their torsos or their hips very much. It is allowed for competitive sports, but that’s it.
Back in the 70’s in disco days, we would go to a very popular club with a huge lit-up dance floor. If not showing up with a date, we stood around the edges watching the dancing, and single girls would be approached by single guys and asked to dance. (usually when the floor was a lot more crowded, lol, and the music and vibe was really cranking). I met some nice people that way, we would arrange to meet at an all-night diner sometimes later on so we could hear each other talk. … The point is, the guys who did NOT approach girls to dance were rather bitter: like, ‘what’s he got that I don’t’ and ‘they look so stupid jerking around’ and ‘those guys must be GAY’. Their own fault. They were too cool (or too low in self-esteem) to even try.
Are you implying that you disagree with the premise of what I said? I said that the most popular men’s sports tend to involve a ball or something similar, and I said upthread that the male brain tends to be better at tracking movement of objects. Rugby would, indeed, be another example of a sport that is played more commonly by men and involves tracking the movement of a ball.
That skills in ballet would be useful to rugby is not surprising. I am sure rugby uses balance and agility in addition to tracking and following a ball.
What I am saying is that women seem to be more inclined to gravitate towards sports that purely involve body coordination, as opposed to body coordination with a ball or ball-like object, which is what men seem more inclined to gravitate towards.