Why do people hate "wiggers?"

Great Debates
21

[QUOTE=Indygrrl]
Well, an identically acting black man might actually be from the streets, whereas the kid from the suburbs knows nothing of that life. If the black man is also from the suburbs it is also laughable, but not as much as it is for the white kid. I’m not saying that there are no white people from the streets, because of course there are, but the suburban kids look like idiots when they try to affect that look.

I think it is just that we assume there are more blacks from the street than whites. This may be a racist assumption, but I don’t think it has anything to do with whether or not Icy Hot Stuntaz are dillholes.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with much of this, but why should we not equally mock the black kid from the suburbs? Why should we not equally “respect” the white kid from the streets? For that matter why should “genuine” black thugs receive this strange thug-life respect?

In the end, I fear that we expect less from young black men than we do from young white men. The white guys are going through a pathetic phase that they will grow out of and feel silly about when they see their high school yearbook in ten years. The black guys are really budding criminals.

The truth is that they’re both pathetic asses and we should expect the same improvement in behaviour from both.

(I’m also apparently not with it enough to know what an Icy Hot Stunta is…)

22

[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker]
I agree with much of this, but why should we not equally mock the black kid from the suburbs? Why should we not equally “respect” the white kid from the streets? For that matter why should “genuine” black thugs receive this strange thug-life respect?

In the end, I fear that we expect less from young black men than we do from young white men. The white guys are going through a pathetic phase that they will grow out of and feel silly about when they see their high school yearbook in ten years. The black guys are really budding criminals.
[/QUOTE]

Heh, I don’t have higher expectations from young white men. I expect most of them will go on to get a soulless liberal arts degree and a soulless corporate job rising to the staggering heights of middle-management one day. I don’t really see that as being ‘better’ than being a drug dealer, only less likely to shoot me with a stray bullet.

23

Are we allowed to say that a particular culture sucks, here? Because gangsta’ (lol) culture sucks.

I hate wiggas and niggas, and neither more than the other, and both for the same reasons. The culture is violent, degrading, and destructive. It’s not racism, but culturism, which I guess a lot of people might think is just as bad.

African American culture is not gangster culture, by the way. No more than mafia culture is Italian culture, anyway.

24

[QUOTE=Mosier]
Are we allowed to say that a particular culture sucks, here? Because gangsta’ (lol) culture sucks.

I hate wiggas and niggas, and neither more than the other, and both for the same reasons. The culture is violent, degrading, and destructive. It’s not racism, but culturism, which I guess a lot of people might think is just as bad.

African American culture is not gangster culture, by the way. No more than mafia culture is Italian culture, anyway.
[/QUOTE]

Gangster culture is a common and natural reaction to being among the bottom rungs of a society. Gangsterism later is entrenched and becomes the establishment, the government etc… The Feudal Gangsters of Europe became its statesmen. Was there really much difference between what Pompey and Caesar did and a gang war? In America poor immigrant communities often go through a period of gangsterism before going legit, but it is the children of the gangsters who receive the most benefit, it is they who inherit the legitimate businesses that were started with blood money.

One of the aspects of Hip Hop is pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in a white culture that disdains ‘gangsterism’, a common refrain being, “Bush is the biggest gangster of them all.”

Power runs by the same rules whether you are in the marble columned buildings of Washington or the slums.

25

According to the Racial Slur Database:

26

[QUOTE=Phase42]
According to the Racial Slur Database:
[/QUOTE]

That site doesn’t look like it’s ever seen a racial slur that it didn’t consider real. I mean, “wet dog” is apparently a racial slur against whites according to that site.

27

[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker]
That site doesn’t look like it’s ever seen a racial slur that it didn’t consider real. I mean, “wet dog” is apparently a racial slur against whites according to that site.
[/QUOTE]

Seriously.

“539” for Jews - meaning, the numbers on the telephone that correspond to J-E-W? Puh-leeeeease.

28

My city has a large urban Appalachian population. Most of the kids people would call “wiggers” go to public school with our even larger African American population. They’re poor, they live in many of the same neighborhoods, and they have many of the same shared experiences - so why not affect the same culture?

Like I said in the other thread, it’s like knocking Mitch Ryder.

29

Something that I think should be mentioned is that ‘wigger’ is so passe. The culture has permeated amongst the youth and it’s actually pretty normal for kids to affect that pose at this point.

30

[QUOTE=pizzabrat]
And it’s that sentiment that’s especially insulting to blacks - hence the OP’s correct interpretation of “wigger”.
[/QUOTE]

I think the real racism there would be to assume that the black race as a whole subscribes to, or is willing to validate, ‘gangsta culture’ to the degree that they they would be offended by white people disparaging said ‘gangsta culture’. I know plenty of black people who are disgusted by the whole thing, and I think it would be wrong of me as a white person to feel I couldn’t talk negatively about the ‘gangsta’ thing with or in front of a black person just because they were black. I find that to be the true racism.

31

I’ll try to avoid the word, because I think it’s pretty offensive.

But yes, as an African-American male, I have a problem with people adopting mannerisms, speech, posturing, etc. that are clearly not their own. Would I ever curse them out, or dress them down at the mall? Of course not. People are welcome to make fools of themselves as much as they like. I just think they are somewhat immature and huge posers.

Now I know plenty of kids from my neighborhood who have ghetto passes. The way they dress, speak, and the music they listen to is similar to everyone who grew up there. They don’t come off as phony. To use the Madonna example, it’s like comparing her to Chrissie Hynde. Chrissie has lived in England for years, and she still sounds like an American. She will occasionally say a word or two that sounds very “British,” but it comes across as genuine. Maddie, on the other hand, used to speak with this ridiculous exaggerated posh accent which she’s since toned down.

I have a lot of Asian friends, and I think they have a very cool culture. However, I realize it’s theirs, and though I know a lot of swear words in Lao, for instance, I wouldn’t go around using them. That seems a little too… intimate. I grew up around the barrio, but I wouldn’t adapt the mannerisms of a cholo (though I did have a really nice pair of shiny Stacy Adams). Again, too close.

Ultimately, I’m determining what I assume to be someone’s experience with these judgments. I could be wrong, and the kids who do this stuff might well be truly immersed in the culture, but in my experience, knowing a lot of kids who grew up around Black people, those folks are much more natural and less forced. I can tell someone like MC Serch (formerly of 3rd Bass) has a strong connection to Black people and respects African-American culture, but he doesn’t come across as a wannabe or someone who tries too hard. Personally, I’ve often been accused of having White tastes in music, and sounding White in my speech. But that’s a surface assessment, because anyone who knows me for more than a few minutes knows that I’m so Black, I just might be navy…

32

I should also add that extreme buffoonery irks me generally. Suburban White kids who overdo the popped collar, A&F, preppy look. Frat boys and sorority girls who again, make it evident from first sight that they are identified with their clique. Again, I know Black people from the 'hood who are quite OTT about “gangsta culture,” and I think they too are ridiculous. Most Black people I know are quite adept at code switching, and know how to roll at a family reunion as compared to a city council meeting. People who act as if they are at the family reunion 24/7 annoy me a little. But again, some people really have never been anywhere but those kind of environments, so maybe it’s a little more understandable.

33

[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow]
But yes, as an African-American male, I have a problem with people adopting mannerisms, speech, posturing, etc. that are clearly not their own.
[/QUOTE]
How is that anywhere near your business in any way?

34

[QUOTE=Miscue]
I think the real racism there would be to assume that the black race as a whole subscribes to, or is willing to validate, ‘gangsta culture’ to the degree that they they would be offended by white people disparaging said ‘gangsta culture’. I know plenty of black people who are disgusted by the whole thing, and I think it would be wrong of me as a white person to feel I couldn’t talk negatively about the ‘gangsta’ thing with or in front of a black person just because they were black. I find that to be the true racism.
[/QUOTE]
Ok. Did you understand my comment?

(And “the true racism”? What is that? There’s one true racism now?)

35

[QUOTE=pizzabrat]
How is that anywhere near your business in any way?
[/QUOTE]
Did you actually read the entire post? Sheesh.

36

A few of my opinions on various topics raised throughout the thread.

Gangsta culture is an insult to black people everywhere, the vast majority of whom are responsible ,hard working and sensible .
Its like branding all white Brits .with the soccer hooligan stamp.

Its a cowardly,Walter Mitty culture ,drive bys ,shooting people in the back and then running away,ganging up on individuals and intimidating the weak and vulnerable .
Real men dont beatup on their S.Os
If they are so desperate to prove how tough they are then why dont they enlist and serve some time in Iraq or Afghan against people who can see them and are armed as well.
But oh no we dont see too much of that from these big hard men do we?

If the gangsta culture IS some sort of survival aid "on the streets man"then why do the successful rappers with great personal wealth ,mansions and the freedom to get away from
this primitive lifestyle persist with the gangsta posturing that has more in common with sixteenth century Africa then twentyfirst century America?
And why dont more of them make a SERIOUS attempt to use their fame and their wealth to get some of their people out of the mire and into a grownup ,noncriminalworshipping lifestyle?

As to Wiggers I think they are viewed with amusement by many because they are pretending to be who they are not ,a little bit like some Brits who come back from an American holiday with fake Yank accents and who start using "sidewalk"and “drug store” in their vocab and who are treated with the same level of derision…

I dont buy the whites surrounded by a black neighbourhood theory causing gangsta mannerisms.
My ex wife and I lived in an area several square miles around in which if we weren’t actually the only whites then we never did see any of the others but neither of us spoke or acted in any other way then we had always done .
And yes we did fully socialise within the local.community

It is quite common ,in my part of England at least ,for darker skinned young male Asian Indians and Pakistanis to do the brown equivalent of Wiggerism as W.Indians are felt to have more respect from society generally ,in their eyes anyway.

African immigrants often do the same for the same reasons but not very convincingly usually.

Finally it is also very common for W.Indian males to be speaking with a quite normal Brit. accent one minute and then in an accent that sounds as if they’ve just flown in from Jamaica
and had half their brain removed as soon as they bump into other W.Indians.

White kids act in a similar way exaggerating their local accent artificially for street cred so its not a race thing.

37

[QUOTE=pizzabrat]
How is that anywhere near your business in any way?
[/QUOTE]

Like Strat said, you really need to read my entire post. It isn’t.

38

[QUOTE=Lust4Life]
Finally it is also very common for W.Indian males to be speaking with a quite normal Brit. accent one minute and then in an accent that sounds as if they’ve just flown in from Jamaica
and had half their brain removed as soon as they bump into other W.Indians.
[/QUOTE]

Accents are part of register, are they not? Why shouldn’t they change the register of their speech depending on the parties to the conversation?

Your description of the accent is kind of odd. How would you describe the way I speak at work (Standard American English) and how I speak with my family (mix of three areas of Dixie English, complete with ain’t and y’all)? Oh, and what in the accent is it that makes it sound as though half their brain had been removed?

39

[QUOTE=Stratocaster]
Did you actually read the entire post? Sheesh.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah…where was the answer?

40

[QUOTE=Monty]
Accents are part of register, are they not? Why shouldn’t they change the register of their speech depending on the parties to the conversation?

Your description of the accent is kind of odd. How would you describe the way I speak at work (Standard American English) and how I speak with my family (mix of three areas of Dixie English, complete with ain’t and y’all)? Oh, and what in the accent is it that makes it sound as though half their brain had been removed?
[/QUOTE]

The funny thing is that, based on his writing style, I imagine Lust4Life as having a lower-class British accent. The kind that an upper-class Brit would say sounds as if half his brain has been removed.