Why do people have children?

Great Debates
81

For us, having kids wasn’t something we needed to be happy.

It was an enhancement of existing happiness.

It was an integrated decision. Money? Not terribly important to us on a functional ‘spend it to get stuff’ level, more of an expendable resource we were willing to expend on children. Responsibility? Yes, and one we were comfortable with. Impulse-to-have-them-wise? Intellectually, we felt we could handle parenthood, were interested in sharing our lives with children for whom we were functionally and materially responsible. Emotionally, we felt we would get satisfaction from the experience, encounter events and reactions we might not have in other experiences, and have enough love to go around. Physically, we were able, and the drive to procreate was there. Spiritually, it felt like something that would provide an opportunity for joy, awe, humility, and connection. We didn’t break it out like that at the time, but those were the reasons.

Don’t you make all your decisions for the same reasons? Integrating all the aspects, and coming to a conclusion that satisfies you? That’s what we did.

And it paid off. There are risks. And there are ugly parts. And there are days when we go to bed exhausted both emotionally and physically. But the love is far more than worth it enough - and not just the love in return, but the love given by us to them, the heart-bursting, ache-to-the-core, eyes-brimming-over, just-have-to-hug-someone-NOW LOVE, simply from hearing a single small individual laugh. The ‘I thought I knew how much my parents loved me but I had not the barest flicker of an idea how intense, powerful, deep, and abiding the feeling could be’ love. The giving my mom a thank-you card after my son was born, because I finally GOT it, love. The willing to walk in front of a bus fully knowing it will kill me for the sake of someone else love. Powerful, potent, life-altering, humbling, boundary-obliterating, exhilerating, awe-inspiring love.

Worth it.

Worth sleepless nights. Worth the agony of driving to the emergency room not knowing if my child is still breathing in the back seat. Worth the foulest poopy diaper, and there have been some really truly foul ones. Worth being late to work more often than on time. Worth releasing the pre-child dreams of breeding horses. Worth re-arranging my entire garden in order to fit a gym-swingset into the yard. Worth discussing yet again why we don’t buy things just to make you feel better. Worth the mommy-bear rage in response to a bully hitting my child. Worth handling broken hearts and anger and grief. Worth all the ick.

Becoming a parent, fully and completely, whether by accident or choice, is a truly wonderful, amazing, potent experience. It isn’t the only one out there. It isn’t necessary to our existance. It isn’t advisable for everyone. And many people do it without diving into it fully, do it half-way, or badly, or use it as a way to express their own pain on someone else. And others dive in and find the waters are icy and full of sharks. Some of those manage to build boats and fend off serious injury. Some of them regret ever jumping. Many, even with serious injury, do not.

Why? Why anything. Why take up surfing? Because it brings you joy, and you can afford or are willing to take the risks, even if you can’t completely afford them. Why go to school? Because it satisfies something you want from your life, even if you don’t know if you will succeed. You do it because you anticipate the benefits to be greater than the risks, in some way. And if you assess and find that the risks are greater than the benefits, you choose not to. And if you find yourself facing the choice in the moment whether you like it or not, you choose again - to take on the risks, or not to.

I respect people who choose not to have kids. The difficulties are great enough that anyone would be considered foolish to take it on when they are unwilling to face the risks, period. No, it isn’t easy and fun all the time. I’d be considered foolish to take on scuba diving with an expectation that I’d never be at risk, too, or without learning about them. But if you are willing to move forward despite your fears and concerns, despite the risks and dangers, despite the annoyances and frustrations, because you see the joys as the greater side of the equation, you go for it. Just the same, you know you are willing to be a parent when the difficulties and fears no longer stop you from planning, trying, or moving forward with parenthood.

As for your list:

  1. The world is overpopulated.
    And all decisions are based on global awareness? You drive yourself to work? The air is over-polluted, too. Do you ever ride a plane? They pollute. Do you recycle everything? The landfills are overflowing. Do you make all your decisions based on how they will impact the world as an absolute? Or do you moderate your risks, shift the balance where you can, and make decisions based on your personal assessment of how much impact you are making, not on the absolute assessment of someone else or everyone as a whole?

  2. I don’t want to pass on my weaknesses to any offspring.
    *Good. Great, in fact. I don’t, either. Funny thing about offspring, they don’t inherit everything exactly the way you are now. And you know, even inherited weaknesses can be moderated. If they are non-genetic, like bad upbringing or emotional issues, you can learn. And heck, you never know. I have strong teeth. My husband has strong teeth. Our kids have soft teeth. But we also know how to take care of them. Information and education are wonderful things. I have asthma, neither child has asthma. I have poorly developed joints and defective collagen. Neither child has either issue. My husband has a non-perfect spine (developmentally), neither child has that issue. ::Shrug::

Beyond that, I have strengths that don’t pass on, either. And some that do. But the greatest thing I pass on is how to think, how to handle problems effectively, the skills of approaching life with a positive attitude, of finding joy in little things and big ones, of relating to others, of empathy and compassion. Hardly a bad thing, IMHO. *
3. Having children means I must be responsible for them. Ewww!
Then don’t. If you ever feel the responsibility is worth it, then you will feel it is worth it. The ewww reaction is uncalled for. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for a parrot, myself, but I’d hardly say ‘ewww’ about it. If you are squeamish about it, stay off the topic as save your squirming for someplace where we don’t have to hear it.

  1. Any money I make is mine and doesn’t have to be squandered on some stupid college fund.
    *Go play. Have fun. My money is mine, and I choose to spend it, just like you do. I like making it grow. I like the idea that I will be able to help someone else with my money. My parents didn’t have a college fund for me, and I just finished paying off my student loans this year. We will have a fund for our kids. How nice. Like charity! Feel free to spend yours (though I recommend a good retirement fund, so you can spend more of it when you get old). Play responsibly. *

  2. My parents don’t get to gloat over me suffering for the same reasons they suffered.
    Boy, you must have had mean parents. I don’t gloat, it is unkind. Rather, I rejoice when my child doesn’t have to suffer the same things, and I commiserate when they do.

  3. I am extremely happy with my life now. I don’t want to change that or screw it up by having kids.
    Well, duh. Don’t change anything if it is perfect. But life isn’t static. You, yourself aren’t static. You learn, you grow, you change. So do we all. What I wanted when I was a teen is not what I wanted when I was in my 20’s, and not what I want now. My life has been perfect many times in that span. But I wouldn’t go back to any one of them, change the current wonderful for the previous one. When your life shifts, your self shifts, your expectations shift, your goals shift, your desires shift, you are then going to reassess, and reassess again, each time. You may never find that having kids is a bonus to where you are. Or you may. But just because my life is happy doesn’t mean that it won’t be happier with children. I didn’t need to get married to be happy, either. I was happy with my love life the way it was. It just shifted and marriage was something we felt was an appropriate addition to our happiness, and sure enough, we were happier with it. If we hadn’t been, oh well, life is about learning and trying things, and adulthood is about doing so responsibly, isn’t it? If that means kids is a responsible choice, then it is. And if it isn’t, where’s the question?

  4. The world is not in optimum condition right now, why bring some poor innocents into it?
    When has the world been in optimum condition? Not my mom’s generation. Not the one before, or the one before that. There’s always war, or poverty, or disease somewhere. There’s always inequity, conflict, or despair. And there is also always charity, kindness, grace. There are always people trying to make it better, people being kind, people trying to change the world in a good way. That hasn’t changed, either. My generation fears terrorism randomly taking away someone we love. My parent’s generation feared nuclear war, and theirs feared epidemic disease. The name of the fear changes, but the fact that life is not a guarantee of happiness has not. The fact that our world is always at risk, that random or non-random events can hurt us has always been true. If you are waiting for perfect, have fun, and let me know when it happens. In the meantime, I have children, not as an act of hope, but an expression of the knowledge that there is good as well as bad, and everyone has to navigate that, no matter who they are.

  5. I am very childlike myself, and I have noticed that people that have children lose a lot of that sense of wonder. I would rather remain forever a kid.
    I’m with the ones who find that as much as I had wonder and joy before, it is redoubled and redoubled now that I have kids. Yes, there are responsible thoughts, fears and concerns, serious moments and deep thoughts. And there is also the joy of rainbows, and finding worms on a wet sidewalk, of the very first snowstorm, over again. The visceral response to food, the hysterical joy of pretending, the awe of learning something new. I get to see it all and do it all again. And I get to do it like the first time, again. Stomping in puddles, laughing freely, without a flicker of social awareness about being inappropriately childlike as an adult - I have a child with me, and that makes me exempt. People laugh and wave as I stomp along behind my child, down the sidewalk for the fourth time, soaked to the knees. What gets better than that?

82

I’m 7 months pregnant with my 4th baby.

I’ve always knows I wanted to have kids. One of the features I looked for in the man I would marry is a man who would make a great father. When my huband and I married we both knew we wantd kids. No questions.

We seem to be doing well so far. The kids are healthy, happy and greatly loved. They add to our lives so much.

This is going to be our last baby (I’m 99% sure) and I go back and forth between, “Thank God I won’t have to go through the discomforts of pregnancy any more!” and “I’m so sad I’ll never again feel a baby moving inside of me!”

I want kids because I like them a lot, love being a mother, and I feel that I’m doing very well at it!

83

(all the above is IME, and IMHO. YMMV. And certainly my childless siblings have wonderful lives.)

84

…And once again, hedra outdoes us all with her eloquence with what we feel but can’t say.

85

Great God Almighty!
First, you read ALL my posts?

Second, my former husband wanted me to have his child, I did not push him.

Third, I am not divorced, widowed.
He wanted artificial insemination because he wanted me healthy as he had AIDS; we did have sex many times without trying for impregnation.

Fourth, I was working while pregnant, up to the 4th month( I was a dancer) and went back to work 5 weeks after giving birth.

I lost my job when my son was 2.

Fifth, i never said I was a child advocate, anyone who doesn’t want them, fine!
I was just curious as to your thoughts on this, I see you seem a bit obsessed and have an unusual dislike of children.
Honestly, you came across in this post as a bit …weird.
Can you not see that?

86

Asking why someone should have children is rather like someone asking for a logical reason to believe in God.

At every turn, an argument is met by a counter argument, and left at a standstill, where the pro God/child person just has to say “well, I feel in my heart this is what I want to believe/do.”

Maybe the OP’s question would be better as “Should there be requirements before we’re allowed to reproduce?” or “Is Social Darwinism the way to go?” or even “Stop telling me I have to have kids, DAMMIT!” (for the pit, of course)

Fact is, having kids as an adult is societal default mode. As long as more births are accidental than intentioned (don’t know if that’s true, but I bet it is), then that won’t change anytime soon.

This is my first post, by the way. Hi.

87

Vanilla What did you do to Wake up call??!!:eek: Anyway, like I said waaay earlier in the thread, I don’t mind helping. Children are always a good cause. You don’t need to explain your life or reasons to anyone. Just enjoy it.:slight_smile:

88

A few answers come to mind; because we’re ignorant, because we like to fuck, because the idea of watching a “little me” develop is so enticing, because we all think we’re different from everyone else, but I think mostly because we’re selfish and don’t really give a crap about anyone’s happiness but our own - evidenced by a number of posters here who essentially replied with “because I can” (and even so, just the dream of it, it rarely manifests to produce the happiness people expect from it) . Understand that the response you’ve elicited here is somewhat biased, as the majority of the audience are in a “good” situation, sure they might bitch about the price of cds and petrol etc. but do consider the parents who aren’t answering - the ones who send their children walking twenty miles a day just for drinking water, or who don’t even see their children during the week because they can’t afford the cost of transport home from their menial hard-labour etc. etc.

Developed-world people delude themselves with all kinds of fanciful ideas about how their kid might be the one to discover the miracle alternate energy, or be the next Jesus or Einstein or whoever; under-developed–world people delude themselves that their kids will provide for them in later life and achieve things that they couldn’t in theirs. In both cases here, I’m presuming these are the parents that actually WANTED children in the first place, many just can’t control their sexual urges and end up as parents as a result.
And as has been mentioned, kids are useful manipulation tools between adults.

That “genes”/“we’ve always been doing it” argument is incredibly weak. (ad antiquitatem?)

The people questioning the need to “understand” - why people who don’t want kids don’t understand those who want kids… lol. Why do we want to understand? How can desire for understanding EVER be questioned? and it’s only parents that question like this. Telling indeed.

Dangerosa, your kids/pets analogy was frightfully laughable. and again, telling indeed. (I don’t mean to pick on you, because any analogy with kids I feel is rather poor, because nothing can possibly be as demanding or important as raising children… properly. No hobby or activity is going to compare, and it’s stupid to try.)
From the posts, it seems there are a few people who chose to be parents for the right reasons and are most likely good parents - but they’re unfortunately in the minority. On a forum as reasonably educated and intelligent as this one, that’s… telling too. Most parents lose the ability to objectively see logic, and there IS logic - just because we’re dealing with humans and emotions doesn’t mean logic magically falls away - in the issue, which is a sad, sad thing. The biggest area they fail to see logic in, is why they can respect the decision to not have children, but those who don’t have children don’t seem to want to respect the decision to have children. Try looking at it from a smoker vs non-smoker point of view (puff “oh, fine, you don’t wanna smoke? That’s all right with me.” ash-flick). Or gas-guzzler driver vs cyclist. Or any <action that infringes on lives and rights of others> vs <action that doesn’t>. Wake up Call’s points were all quite valid. Those that took the most offence probably deserve to. The defensive attitudes that sprung up are all… yes, telling! People don’t defend things they know they’re not guilty of. Some people posted reasons for having children, but not for a moment did they attempt to justify their own. Others did. The difference between the two is marked.

Obviously there is some need for reproduction to occur, but at the moment it happens too frequently by parents who are not ready to be parents, and who don’t know how to be parents. In time, I’m hopeful (from the increasing number of people I see who feel they’ve been “incorrectly hardwired” or some such, because we disagree with having children), as society and culture progress these will become problems of the past (today). For now it’s just “me me me! look at the miracle I produced!”.

Thanks for the thread, a very interesting read. And quite telling. :slight_smile:

89

Swoop,

Do you have children? Do you have a spouse? Do you control their actions?

90

No, no, and no.

I have a dog though! But I can’t control him :frowning: Tried a mind-meld once, but something went wrong and I ended up widdling on lamp-posts for a week after.

91

And if you can’t control a dog, you are to blame for its breed-specific and age-specific behavior? I’m sure your dog is headed for a lifetime of trouble, it having seen other dogs peeing on lamp posts, or learning that behavior from you :wink: . They’re born housetrained and under control, you know, it is just the owner or other dogs influencing them to pee in corners and growl at strangers. And clearly if you haven’t controlled all their behavior yet, you aren’t up to the responsibility. (not to mention that a 4-year old person is still a puppy by that analogy…)

Next question: Do you have any child-development background at all? I’m just waiting to hear that you are a developmental pediatrician… Because you certainly have plenty of assertions that suggest you know all about why children behave the way they do. You are smart, you are a good observer, you therefore know what is going on in situations for which you have how much training, personal experience, and education?

As for the ‘why do you have to push it on me’ thing, actually I find the religion comparison rather useful. Some parents are trying to convert the non-parents. And some non-parents are trying to convert (or deride, dismiss, etc.) the parents. Just like strong believers and non-believers in a particular religion. And they do so regardless of whether they happen to be perfect practicers of their faith.

Which makes it a pointless argument to get into.

However, I would bet that a great many of the people who proselytize parenthood would be horrified at the idea of pushing their religion on someone else. Perhaps pointing out the parallels would shut them up more effectively? It also helps explain why it is so irksome to those who don’t want kids.

I think I’ll have to use that on my mom, who thinks I should want daughters. I don’t. No particular hunger or need for one. Child, yes. Girl? Whatever. I like boys, I have boys, I don’t need a girl, thanks. But I get the same line from parents-of-girls as childless people do from parents-of-any. “You don’t know what you are missing.” and “You’d understand if you had one.” and “The experience is impossible to describe… rewards you won’t get any other way, experiences that you will never have if you only have boys.” And they’ll be all sad for me if I don’t have a daughter (okay, some of them). If I had a daughter, that would be great, because she’d be my child. I’d probably love the experience just fine. But please, I don’t need to be converted, just so I can mourn the lack if I don’t get it. I don’t need to ‘get it’ to be able to live my life. I don’t need to have a daughter to feel complete, or happy, or at peace. I didn’t even need kids for that, they were enhancements that developed naturally from where I was, not things to stuff into the holes in my heart that I should have repaired on my own.

The ‘why do anything’ argument still holds, for me. Because it makes sense to me, it fits my needs, it resonates to what I want, and it satisfies something that I’d like satisfied. Same reason I believe anything I believe, do anything I do, etc. And when people don’t want kids, that’s great. I feel bad only when they get them if they don’t want them (if they don’t find themselves transformed in the process, which many do and some do not), and the same if they want them but don’t get them. I can’t find myself feeling bad for someone who doesn’t get what they never wanted. Even if it MIGHT have been transformative for them, that’s like me being all bent because I’ll never climb Mount Everest. I don’t particularly want to, and I’m not especially able (asthma, bad knees), and while I know it is profoundly moving and the experience can be life-altering, I am not about to mourn the loss. And I suspect that if for some strange reason I was forced to climb Mt. Everest, and made it, it would probably be transformative for me, too. Still won’t find me buying climbing gear. JUST because it is a life-altering experience, doesn’t mean you need to try it.

I do have to agree with swoop that the justifications are often pretty flimsy. But any justification is flimsy, by the very nature of it being a justification. And most of them just get you in trouble if you try to live life like they are actually valid. Say, that my child will support me in my old age - what if they don’t? What if they don’t want to? Should I require it of them? Will they just want to escape that pressure? Not that they can’t decide to do so on their own, if we have a solid relationship, but boy, that’s not my idea of a good reason to have them on its own. And the ‘contribute to the world’ one should be a part of life in general, not a reason for being born. It kind of makes the whole ‘be a good person’ a burden, not a skill that has value in itself. I expect my children to leave the world a better place, because that is part of the values I teach, part of what it means to be a good person in our family culture. But that’s not why I had kids. Justifications of not having kids, like ‘I like spending my money on myself’ are just the same - justifications, and therefore flimsy. If you don’t have a drive and need to do so, you don’t. If it doesn’t fit your life and what you want, what you think will satisfy you, that’s fine. Justifying it, just like justifying having kids, is a poor cover for the deeper truth. And that deeper truth, if it is really there (and you aren’t just hiding insecurity or emotional issues either way), will hold up under a cross-fire. So why hide it under the surface junk?

Part of my own deepest reason is found in the paragraph on love that I wrote in that huge freakin’ post above. I have kids to give TO them, not to get FROM them. Yes, there is satisfaction in watching them grow, but even part of that is in having been the gardener that tended, cultivated, pruned, supported, and guided the growth. They are who they are, but my effort is a gift and a learning experience and a transformation in itself. And as any long-term gardener knows, when you tend your garden, the process of tending something else comes full circle and tends the gardener, as well. Even if the garden never bears fruit, or turns out vastly different than what you expected, even if you have to make major overhauls, recover from disasters, etc., it is the process of gardening that it the real reason to have a garden, not the flowers at the end. It is the gifts I give, the effort I put out, the thought I put in, the intimacy and love I grow in me, that makes being a parent worth it.

And that process can be found in other places, too. We don’t all have to grow flowers to be gardeners. Even the tending of a zen rock garden involves the same processes, brings out the same kinds of strengths, requires the same kinds of discipline, and gives back to the gardener. It may not be as immediately and obviously overwhelming as parenthood can be, but I don’t think everyone needs to be hit with a 40-lb hammer to grow themselves fully. If you don’t grow flowers, you won’t know what gifts flowers grow in you, but you will know what gifts you get from whatever else you are tending - your life, your community, your intellect, your friendships, your business, whatever.

92

"The people questioning the need to “understand” - why people who don’t want kids don’t understand those who want kids… lol. Why do we want to understand? How can desire for understanding EVER be questioned? and it’s only parents that question like this. Telling indeed. " I’m not even sure what the heck this means…

From where I sit, here is how the discussion has gone:

OP asks a question about why people want to be parents, providing list of reasons why they find it hard to fathom.

Parents answer, explaining how the issues raised by the OP were different for them. Perhaps a little defensive in some responses.

OP and others who aren’t interested in children react as if the responses–which were solicited, I’ll point out–was an attempt to recruit people to breed.

It calls into question whether the OP was a genuine question at all–or rather a position statement masked as curiosity. I think the OP didn’t want to know more about why people become parents. I think she wanted to argue with parents and promote her own views as not just being right for her, but actually right for everyone.

And I don’t agree with this. Shame on me if I ever try to advocate that my choice to become a parent–or to have a certain number of children–is right for anyone else. Similarly, shame on anyone who tries to promote their decision as the more correct one.

My beef with pepper was not that she couldn’t understand–I don’t understand things either, such as the desire to have more children than I do–but rather that she seemed to be adamant that her own lack of understanding invalidated many cultural mores–such as giving baby gifts. Saying congratulations. That sort of thing.

93

well, I didn’t mean to imply that pushing parenthood is equivalent to pushing religion; I’ve yet to have a total stranger ask why I’m not reproducing, the way they sometimes ask if I’ve accepted Jesus. My only point was that if a healthy, financially sound adult decides to procreate, he or she shouldn’t have to justify it with logical reasoning. A poor or mentally challanged person, well, that’s a WHOLE different thread.

94

This is the great debates forum correct?
Debates are a more civilized form of arguing.
And some people should have children.
But I stand by my beliefs that not everybody that has children shoud have had them. Just because someone desires to have children does not make them capable of raising them.
Should a sixteen year old girl who can’t even take care of herself have children? I think not.

95

This is a fairly accurate assessment of how things went in this thread, but I don’t think the OP was trolling. I think the discussion degenerated in places because of the emotionally charged content. The parents got a little defensive and the anti-breeders got a little defensive in return. It’s human nature when discussing just about any topic that belongs in Great Debates.

Oh, <insert deity here> help me, I’m posting in GD now. I swore I’d never come in here… :wink:

96

That, if I’m not mistaken, is an entirely different topic, and probably belongs in another thread.

97

eh? no, it belongs right here. The girl is becoming a parent. Why?

98

it is a different topic because, it seems to me, the OP wasn’t specifying those who might not have the financial and/or mental facilities to be ABLE to have and raise children. Rather, it’s something of a reaction to those who assume “well, you have kids, even in a world with 6 Billion plus, cause that’s just what you do, and there’s no sense arguing.”

If a 16 yr old girl decides she doesn’t want children right then and there, very few will ask why not. If a late 20’s/early 30’s professional married couple says the same thing, whole different story. And that’s who I imagined the OP was asking to justify reproductive rights.

99

When parents (and others) in this thread stepped forward to answer the question “Why do people children,” they were not promoting parenthood among minors.

When people offered their own perspectives or those of parents they know, they were not saying that all people who want kids should have them.

100

2 of my former friends had children at ages 14, and 15.