Why Do People Protest So Much About Vaping?

[JustinC]

I’ve probably opened a can of worms here.

I’m a smoker, and I approve of vaping as a way to reduce the number of toxic chemicals I litter the air with from 5,000 to 1.

I don’t understand how people who use cars, planes or aircraft can criticise me?

The smell? I might find your scent or bodily odor obnoxious, but I don’t bring it up as I was brought up to be polite.
The habit? I don’t like the way you watch Fox News, take up two seats on the bus, decide to dislike me for no reason apart from you being a bully, drive badly or take too long at the cashier.
The addiction? You’ve got me. I’m addicted to nicotine, but I’m trying REAL HARD to find a way to make the least impact as possible. How about your addiction to carbs, fast foods, junk tv, disposable consumables, religion, money, power, manipulating your ‘loved ones’, the latest phone, caffeine, or the internet?

How is vaping more dangerous than most habits people enjoy? Nicotine is not the evil that people project it is; tobacco is. Vaping is mostly consisting of a proved, safe substance (the same used in inhalers for asthmatics) and nicotine - something that stimulates your mind, like caffeine, when ingested but is more addictive.

So. don’t start it. It is very addictive and gives only minor benefits. A bit like crack, I’d admit, in that it’s fucking addictive. Fortunately crack was never socially acceptable and the one time I tried it was the last.

Nicotine, OTOH, was accepted by everyone from my doctor to my brother. And it’s been called as addictive as heroin. Give me a break, and all of the other millions who’ve been taken down the same dead end. Let us reduce our suffering and don’t castigate us for doing so. We all live in glass houses, if you want to start throwing stones then we have, reducing the carcinogens of the stuff we take in by 5000/1 on recent performance, the better throwing arm.

[Kimstu]

You may prefer to have this relocated to Great Debates or the Pit (where there are already a couple of vaping threads active), because I’m not sure there’s a specific factual answer to the question.

But here’s one possible reason, which I previously posted to one of the Pit threads, and which I think sums up a lot of people’s attitudes towards smoking, vaping, heavy perfume, and emanations in general:

@Kimstu

Civilized normally-functioning human beings in public places should have no detectable smell or emissions that can be noticed by anybody who isn’t right in their personal space. (Exceptions understood for the occasional and inevitable fart, sneeze, cough or burp, which nonetheless should be emitted as discreetly and hygienically as possible.)

As I said, if smokers or vapers or perfume-wearers or peppermint-munchers or kimchi-eaters or any other smelly fumey people can find a way of keeping their odors and emissions within their own personal space, I’m all for letting them pursue their chosen activity anywhere they want. Otherwise, too bad.

If it smells, smokes or otherwise spreads to such an extent that it’s noticeable in your general surroundings, don’t do it in public.

[yellowjacketcoder]

I think throwing out the usual reason for people as something you don’t agree with is poisoning the well a bit.

I don’t like the smell of cigarette smoke. I don’t like the smell of vaping. I don’t like the smell of BO or cologne either, to mention the other things you bring up. So I would prefer you not vape around me. (I would also prefer you shower before you interact with me and not use any of those godawful colognes or sprays that are on the market).

You want to smoke at home, go ahead. You want to vape at home, go ahead. You want to vape next to me on the sidewalk? Eh, could you do that someplace else?

[Emtar_KronJonDerSohn]

Hey look everyone, I’m a clever hipster vaping next to a no smoking sign. This isn’t smoke! I’m so damn clever! This is nothing but sunshine and a mothers love I’m exhaling, and it’s healthier for you than Flintstones vitamins! Now everyone get upset so I can roll my eyes and say that’s ironic. (What does ironic actually mean anyway?)

I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you!

[engineer_comp_geek]

Moderator Action

While this probably can be answered factually with some sort of survey cite, I think the OP is looking more for opinions on the subject. While this may end up in GD (or maybe even the Pit) at some point, depending on how the thread progresses, I think IMHO is a better choice for now.

Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion.

[JustinC]

Thanks, Kimstu. I’d only ready the threads about the subject on GQ. Your reply seems very rational.

Mods, please move to the forum/thread you feel most appropriate? Thanks-very-much.

[Uniqueorn]

Unless I misunderstood it, smoking is banned in many places because of the dangers of second-hand smoke, not because of the smell. And, as far as I know, vapor second-hand smoke is not dangerous.

[dofe]

@Uniqueorn

Unless I misunderstood it, smoking is banned in many places because of the dangers of second-hand smoke, not because of the smell. And, as far as I know, vapor second-hand smoke is not dangerous.

Which is irrelevant to the subject of the OP, which is “Why Do People Protest So Much About Vaping?”

[JustinC]

@yellowjacketcoder

I think throwing out the usual reason for people as something you don’t agree with is poisoning the well a bit.

I don’t like the smell of cigarette smoke. I don’t like the smell of vaping. I don’t like the smell of BO or cologne either, to mention the other things you bring up. So I would prefer you not vape around me. (I would also prefer you shower before you interact with me and not use any of those godawful colognes or sprays that are on the market).

You want to smoke at home, go ahead. You want to vape at home, go ahead. You want to vape next to me on the sidewalk? Eh, could you do that someplace else?

Do you post about your dislike of the aftershave or deodorant people wear? Would you post about how someone, with a BO problem, used aftershave and anything else he/she could use to hide it?

I also dislike overuse of aftershave and perfume (and smelly feet), as much as I occasionally gag when out. I appreciate it isn’t pleasant, so when I vape I make sure no one notices. I’ve vaped on buses, trains, planes, in restaurants, in my office … everywhere. I appreciate what you’re saying, so could you appreciate what I am? Nicotine addicts are trying very hard to break the habit; a bit more sympathy would be nice

[Uniqueorn]

@Uniqueorn

Unless I misunderstood it, smoking is banned in many places because of the dangers of second-hand smoke, not because of the smell. And, as far as I know, vapor second-hand smoke is not dangerous.

@dofe

Which is irrelevant to the subject of the OP, which is “Why Do People Protest So Much About Vaping?”

Indeed, I meant to answer yellowjacketcoder and Emtar KronJonDerSohn and forgot to quote them. :smack:

[Bill_Door]

@Uniqueorn

Unless I misunderstood it, smoking is banned in many places because of the dangers of second-hand smoke, not because of the smell. And, as far as I know, vapor second-hand smoke is not dangerous.

And that is the problem, “as far as you know”. There are thousands of things that were considered safe at one time and now are not. “As far as they knew” those X-ray machines to check your shoe size were safe. Let’s imagine every time you vaped someone spritzed you with a Flit gun. When you ask what’s in it they say, “As far as I know, it’s not dangerous.” You might protest, you might not, I don’t know enough about you to be sure, but you can be sure that some would protest, just like the assurance that second hand vaping is harmless makes some people protest.

To be honest, if I’m starting to worry about the chemicals going into my body vaping is far, far down on the list of things to worry about, but other people have different priorities than I do, and I don’t care enough about the issue to study it well enough to know who’s right.

The thing that makes me protest the most is the word itself. Vape, vaping, to vape, turning a noun into a verb like a barbarian. That’s just wrong.

[Helena330]

This survey was posted in one of the Pit threads:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/19/1972.full

Czogala et al49 conducted a chamber study of secondhand exposure to e-cigarette aerosol compared with cigarette smoke, finding that, on average, bystanders would be exposed to nicotine but at levels 1/10th that of cigarette smoke

These things aren’t benign as the marketing would have people believe. I’m all for helping smokers quit, but e-cigs haven’t been studied nearly enough to know all the risks. There was a time when cigarettes were thought to be harmless, too.

[JustinC]

@Helena330

This survey was posted in one of the Pit threads:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/19/1972.full

“bystanders would be exposed to nicotine but at levels 1/10th that of cigarette smoke”

These things aren’t benign as the marketing would have people believe. I’m all for helping smokers quit, but e-cigs haven’t been studied nearly enough to know all the risks. There was a time when cigarettes were thought to be harmless, too.

How does that compare to car fumes, coal plants, factories, or smelting plants where carcinogens are concerned? Or perfume, or joss sticks, or bubble machines?

[JustinC]

Cigarettes have been studied to the nth degree for decades, and the nicotine in them wasn’t anywhere near the most dangerous substance in them, unless I’m misremembering?

[Omar_Little]

Most communities and places that criticize vaping and place limits on its locations are based upon studies done by the CDC which indicate that numerous younger people (ages 11-17) are taking up vaping because of the cool factor. The same studies also indicate that young people have a very high incidence rate of switching from vaping to smoking.

So the primary reason for the protest against vaping is that it leads to smoking…and the desire to reduce the impact of smoking an another generation.

[QuickSilver]

@JustinC

How does that compare to car fumes, coal plants, factories, or smelting plants where carcinogens are concerned? Or perfume, or joss sticks, or bubble machines?

Good point. Let’s grind the entire economy and modern civilization to a halt just so we can breath cleaner air, in a hundred years or so.

[Helena330]

@JustinC

How does that compare to car fumes, coal plants, factories, or smelting plants where carcinogens are concerned? Or perfume, or joss sticks, or bubble machines?

Straw man argument.

[yellowjacketcoder]

@JustinC

Do you post about your dislike of the aftershave or deodorant people wear? Would you post about how someone, with a BO problem, used aftershave and anything else he/she could use to hide it?

I also dislike overuse of aftershave and perfume (and smelly feet), as much as I occasionally gag when out. I appreciate it isn’t pleasant, so when I vape I make sure no one notices. I’ve vaped on buses, trains, planes, in restaurants, in my office … everywhere. I appreciate what you’re saying, so could you appreciate what I am? Nicotine addicts are trying very hard to break the habit; a bit more sympathy would be nice

I’m not going to look through my post history to see if I’ve done so or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I have, in fact, had the unpleasant job of telling someone they smell and they need to take a shower NOW, and I had to do that in person, so yes I would say something about smelly aftershave or a BO problem.

You claim nobody notices, but it could just be you’ve been around people that are too polite to tell you to knock it off. You want sympathy? Stop smelling up my air and you can have all the sympathy you want.

[yellowjacketcoder]

@Uniqueorn

Indeed, I meant to answer yellowjacketcoder and Emtar KronJonDerSohn and forgot to quote them. :smack:

I don’t know what quoting me would have done to change the response. I don’t like vaping because of the smell. It has nothing to do with the legality or health of the situation, although I am suspicious of the health safety as proclaimed by vaping advocates.

[RivkahChaya]

@JustinC

Nicotine is not the evil that people project it is; tobacco is. Vaping is mostly consisting of a proved, safe substance (the same used in inhalers for asthmatics) and nicotine - something that stimulates your mind, like caffeine, when ingested but is more addictive.

Nicotine is a poison. The link is to the CDC page; here’s a quote:

At one time, nicotine was used in the United States as an insecticide and fumigant; however, it is no longer produced or used in this country for this purpose. Nicotine affects the nervous system and the heart. Exposure to relatively small amounts can rapidly be fatal.

Parents who have not kept butts or open packs out of reach of toddlers have tragically found out just how poisonous nicotine can be.

Now, it may be that exhaled vapor spreads widely enough that there is no danger, but I want to see studies first. I want to know that if you are vaping at the next table in a restaurant, nicotine isn’t settling on my food. I want to know that if I’m in close quarters with you, like sitting next to you on a bus, poison isn’t getting all over me and my clothes.

I suspect that vaping will not be as dangerous as cigarettes, but who knows? no one. That’s why we need studies. People though sex offender registries had to be a good idea, and look how much they screwed up things.

I think there will still be places where vaping is restricted: I don’t think public school teachers should be allowed to do it in the classroom; I don’t think it should be allowed in places where people are crammed together, like public transportation; restaurants would probably be wise to have “vaping sections,” if they allow it at all, because really, anything competing with their food for the customers’ palates is bad. It probably will be severely restricted in hospitals around oxygen, because as I understand it, something is still lit. If other than those type of restrictions, vaping is permitted in most places cigarettes are not, you won’t hear from me about it, as long as I know it’s safe.

As for why non-smokers won’t just “let” you have your indulgence, it goes something like this: we hate the smell of smoke, and we either were never in the least bit interesting in smoking, because it’s disgusting, or we tried one back in high school, and almost hacked up a lung. We know that you had to deliberately overcome a host of signals from your body telling you not to do this, in order to develop a very bad habit. We don’t understand why. We think it was a stupid decision, and in general, we don’t cater to people’s stupid decisions. I don’t have to give you money because you ran up $10,000 in credit card debt. I don’t have to share then road with someone who chose to drive drunk, because he got his license suspended, and it’s not my problem. Your bad marriage, dishonorable discharge, and drug arrest are not my problem. Your choice to start smoking and become addicted to nicotine is not my problem either.

“Why can’t I vape? it’s not as dangerous as cigarettes, and helps me stop doing cigarettes-- you don’t really want me doing something that dangerous, do you?” sounds like a little kid whining about not getting his way. We know how much sympathy whiny little kids get.

Quit whining, and accept that you don’t just get to do what you want to do.