Why do so many folks hate gays?

Yea muffinman! This MB, and the world in general, needs more intelligent, rational people like you. Great post!

Yep. But, you have one little part wrong there. We, as humans, can not change our mindset. A very angry man could not attain peace is his life without God. A depressed person would not know true joy without God, no matter what drugs he was on. In the same way, a gay person can only change, through the power of God.

Considering that the word “homosexual” was not coined until 1869, it can’t by definition appear in a literal translation of the Bible. In addition, it has been fairly well documented that the disputed word “arsenkotati” (not quite sure of the spelling) has a meaning more akin to “effeminate” which is how the KJV translates it. Paul (who wrote the passage in question, not Jesus) was a sexually conflicted man who believed that the world was going to end in his lifetime. he believed that no one should have sex ever, but if you were unable to control yourself, get married because it’s better to marry than burn. Not exactly the kind of person from whom I’m going to take advice on matters of sexuality.

Apparently so, since Leviticus is talking about the Israelites’ duty to procreate and duty to set themselves apart from “the men of the land…which were before you,” and Romans 1 (written by that screwed-up Paul again) is talking about what supposedly happened to people who worshipped idols. One of God’s odder punishments, right up there with making people bake their shit into bread and eat it.

This is just oh-so convenient. Rather than not have people born gay in the first place, God, who by definition can do anything, allows them to be born gay and then expects them to go through years of trauma to get back to a state which God, who by definition can do anything, expects them to be in the first place. Oh, and if they don’t manage to do what God, who by definition can do anything, could accomplish in a milisecind, then they’ll burn in a lake of fire for a thousand years. Yeah, that’s the way a loving father treats his children.

There is the testimonail evidence of the tens of thousands of gay people who have said they were, who have said they did not choose homosexuality and who were conscious of their homosexuality at very young ages. Are we all liars?

Two plus two is a million, I don’t care what science says!

Rubbish!

Thus spake the founders of Exodus International, the largest “ex-gay” ministry in the world. Who later realized everything they were preaching was nonsense, that they in fact had never stopped being gay and that they were in fact in love with each other.

Even the “ex-gay” ministries themselves admit that what they’re usually talking about is suppressing homosexual behaviour, not changing sexual orientation. To them, it’s the same thing, because they, like you, seem unable to draw a distinction between homosexual behaviour and homosexual orientation. They also have no verifiable statistics of “success” rates.

I found out recently that the Greek and Japanese cultures were very “gay-friendly.” Yes, the same cultures that made great advances in science, architecture, and literature, were homophilic. Or was it just their “pagan” gods that make them become vile and detsetable creatures because of their views? Should we stop reading haikus and watching Greek tragedies in protest? I think not!

Zion: You say that everything the bible says should be followed. I suggest you join the Flat Earth Society. “whatever the bible says is true, regardless of science.” So the space views of the earth, the vanishing horizon, the curvature of shadows in the relation to position on the earth is all “untrue?” Deny this, and you deny the laws of the universe. Yup, the same one that God created.
In conclusion, when you think of the Greek or Japanese cultures, do you think of homosexuals procreating in the streets? No, you think of their advances to mankind. Just something to think about.


“I know you’ve come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you’re only going to kill a man.”  -Che Guevara, Oct 9, 1967.

beaker, Great links! Thanks. Now get over to GQ!

I think homosexuality is unnatural because there is one essential reason men and women have sex. To ensure the survival of their species and genes. Sure, we do it for pleasure, fun, recreation, and a way to get to sleep on some stressful nights. HOWEVER, it’s essentially a way to ensure the species. Homosexuality obviously does not ensure the continuation of human beings, or the passing of genes. That is how it’s unnatural. God, or Nature, made two sexes for a reason.
Also, yes the thought of two people of the same sex making love is very unappealing to me.
Thirdly, if God meant for people of the same sex to sleep together he wouldn’t tell us not to in the Bible. I believe the references have already been stated in this thread.


“The bitch, oh the bitch, the bitch is back…I’m a bitch cuz I’m better then you, it’s the way that I move
The things that I do…” Elton John
“People try to tell me thoughts they cannot defend…” The Moody Blues
“To start, press any key. Where’s the any key?” Homer Simpson.

Otto: What took you so long?
I’m afraid Otto, that you no literaly nothing about the nature of God, or what sin might be. You also have a very warped perception of Paul, who was arguably the greatest man who ever lived, besides Jesus.

Taking this into account, it’s easy to see why my posts may have angered you.

My point Otto, is not whether people are born gay, or not. My point is this: Homosexuality is unnatural. Homosexuality behavior, and and orientation are unnatural. These things do not come from God. Now, because you do not understand God’s power, and His nature, it’s impossible for you to believe that He can actually change a person’s sexual orientation. All I’m trying to tell you, quite simply, is that He can, and does change hearts, change minds, change lives.
Please do not think that I’m being proud here, or arrogant with you. I’m just telling you what I know is true.

As far as why some men think homosexuality is threatening and intolerably icky, I think Cheapbastid is 100% right. I came to that conclusion a long time ago, about the time that I began to wonder why slang words for a man’s actions during “love-making” also have the very negative and ugly meanings that they have.

And then regarding the OP, why teenagers profess to “hate” gays when really they don’t know any (or don’t realize that they do): I think we all have a tendency to be very closed-minded about things we haven’t experienced yet. Meeting someone and finding out that you like that person and that that person is gay could be an eye-opening experience that they haven’t had a chance to have, yet.

Who are you to judge my understanding of either God or sin?

Spare me. Anyone who lived can be called “arguably the greatest,” because it can be argued that anyone is the greatest. Are you disputing that Paul said what I said he did? And in fact Paul was not Jesus. Do you worship Jesus, or do you worship Paul?

You give yourself too much credit.

The definition of “natural” is

Homosexuality meets this definition and pretty much any other reasonable definition of the word. Homosexuality may indeed be unnatural for you and if so then by all means don’t be homosexual. You can’t possibly know what is or is not natural for me. Are you calling me a liar?

I said quite clearly in my post that included within the definition of God is the power to do anything. That includes changing someone’s sexual orientation. One has to wonder, since God can change sexual orientation and doesn’t for millions of people, what does that say about God’s feelings on the matter? Why didn’t Jesus speak against homosexuality, if it was so vitally important?

Oh well. I should know better than to try to argue with Jesus-freaks.

Otto:

Are you even a theist? I know for certain that you’re not Christian. An understanding of God comes from knowing God Otto. Knowing Him on a personal level, an intimate level. You do not know the character of God.

No, I do not worship Paul. I respect Paul, and his writings. He was, very obviously, a great man, who had an incredible heart for God, a love for Jesus, and he was incredibly in tune with the Spirit.

I don’t want to argue with you on the point of homosexuality being natural or not. And, I am not saying you are a liar.

God is not going to wave a magic wand, and make all gays change their orientations, and sexual preferences. If a gay person excepts Jesus into their hearts, they will learn His ways, and follow His Word. The Father will speak to their heart about many issues, including homosexuality. He is not changing you Otto, because you are resistant to Him. You do not have a willing heart. He could zap you, but He wants you to show your weakness, your reliance on Him, and His strength. God has given us more than one Scripture reference on homosexuality.

Just because Jesus did not say something, does not mean that it doesn’t hold equal weight. The words of King David, Isaiah, Jesus, and Paul are all from God Himself. If it’s anywhere in the Bible, it’s there for a reason, to guide us.

[whispery voiceover announcer voice] The character of God on tonight’s broadcast will be played by Biff Richardson. [/whispery voiceover announcer voice]

Very convenient that you don’t want to address the issue of the naturalness of homosexuality, seeing as how it fits the definition of “natural” in every respect and there’s no support for your position. So much for dispelling ignorance.

So he’d prefer that I go to Hell? That’s not very nice of God.

You have no idea of my history or relationship with God. Perhaps, as you have no knowledge, you should refrain from making an ass of yourself by making pronouncements.

He sounds very insecure to me. Very controlling. He’ll have me be born gay, guaranteeing me a one-way ticket to Hell, and just let me go on to Hell regardless of whatever else I may do or be in my life, withholding my ticket to Heaven until I grovel and beg. I thought God was supposed to love me. I wouldn’t stand for an imperfect human being treating me this way; why would I stand for a perfect God doing it?

All of which are disputed. Tell me, do you believe I should be killed for being gay?

Assuming arguendo that the Bible is divinely inspired, God’s words are being filtered through imperfect humans. Isn’t it possible that one of those imperfect humans got it wrong in one of the thousands of times the words have been translated?

Which Bible would that be? The KJV? The NIV? The Catholic Bible? The Vulgate? The Good News Bible? The Reader’s Digest Condensed Bible? Can you explain why anyone should take the Bible seriously when you can’t even agree amongst yourselves what’s in it and what it means?

This doesn’t really advance the debate but for some reason I feel compelled to share it.

The other day, in front of my house, I saw two cats, both of whom I know to be male, trying to have sex. I have seen the same behaviour in dogs.

It seems to me that this must have some bearing on the “naturalness” of homosexuality.

Also the debate has drifted far from the OP, which was not “Is homosexuality OK” but “Why do people hate gays so much.”

i don’t think there is one single explanation. most of the theories that have been put forth are not mutually exclusive. However ultimatly I think hatred of gays stems from the same source as all hate: FEAR


Perked Ears indicate curiosity - Know Your Cat

Hmmm, well reading more and more into this thread…I still like to reassert my claim that homosexuality is NOT natural. It’s natural for a male and a female of a species to breed and make more of the species thereby assuring the continuing exhistance of the species. End of dicusion. Therefore, not natural.
Millions of men and women are born with handicaps, addictions, personal problems, personal trials every day. God does not “fix” everything, He makes you earn your glory. Sure, one MAY be born gay, however, does one HAVE to live the gay lifestyle? Or can one choose to get married and have a family?I personally know of a lot of people who are gay, but who sacrifice their own personal pleasure for the greater good of the species and choose to get married and have families.
Being BORN gay is a LOT different then leading a gay lifestyle. So, in essence being born that way is A) Not damning you to hell, and B) Not an acceptable excuse of living a life of sin.
AND homosexuals often practice a life of pre-marital sex…this is DEFINATELY not acceptable by people who believe in the Bible. They stop gays from getting married, therefore they are doomed to have sex outside of marriage, therefore they are doomed to continue to repeat that same sin over and over. It’s the circle of life, baby.

“The bitch, oh the bitch, the bitch is back…I’m a bitch cuz I’m better then you, it’s the way that I move
The things that I do…” Elton John
“People try to tell me thoughts they cannot defend…” The Moody Blues
“To start, press any key. Where’s the any key?” Homer Simpson.

Interesting question. Personally, I think we need more gay men. More gay men eliminates competition for the straight women! :smiley: I have no problem with gays. I find their bedroom behavior repulsive, but to each his own. Some people screw goats, too. It’s really none of my business. My best friend is a true homophobic: He genuinely fears homosexuals for some irrational reason. The only people I fear are the people who have the desire and ability to disrupt my way of life.


http://www.killersurf.com/mojo

BTW- I don’t buy the concept that one can be born gay. I just don’t feel it’s in any way genetic. I know a set of identical twins, one is straight as an arrow, the other is as queer as a three dollar bill. Same genes.


http://www.killersurf.com/mojo

Studies to date* have indicated that male homosexuality is about 50% heritable and 50% “environmental.” Note “environmental” could mean anything from living conditions to in vitro hormonal exposure. Even in identical twins, environmental factors are not going to be identical.
*c.f. Hamer, Dean and Peter Copeland. Living With Our Genes 1998.

I’m not into personal attacks, this isn’t meant against you personally pepperlandgirl, but for everyone who makes the same arguments you do. Why should people sacrifice their happiness? Why should people be unhappy? Also is getting married and having children really for the best interest of the species? We have plenty of people right now, we don’t’ really need that many more. Do you support gay marriage? If gays got married and practiced sex would that overcome all of your objections? Just wondering because it seems to me that your arguments are based more on defending your fear of gays rather than on any rational view. Do you object as strongly to heterosexual pre-marital sex as you do to homosexual?


history repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce - Karl Marx

First off, I believe ALL pre-marital sex is wrong. I don’t care how old-fashioned/offensive/backward/stupid some of you believe that to be. If nobody had sex outside of marriage abortions,STDs, and a variety of other social ills would be on the decline.
Secondly, if gays wanted to get married, I personally don’t care, considering it would be a state thing and probably not a religious thing.
Thirdly, I’m not scared of homosexuals, I’m not homophobic, and quite frankly I don’t care who fucks who, it’s none of my business.
Fourth, in my belief system, God expects people to make sacrifices. He sacrificed His son, so it’s probably fair to ask for certain sacrfices in return.
Fith, In my belief system we also believe that one of the most important things people could do is get married and have kids. I think that is the most noble thing a homosexual can do. There are millions of spirits waiting for a body.
Sixth, human beings have a very narrow view of what happiness is. What if there IS an ultimate reward for men and women who make sacrifices and it’s more joy then they could ever imagine? Wouldn’t it be worth the wait?


“The bitch, oh the bitch, the bitch is back…I’m a bitch cuz I’m better then you, it’s the way that I move
The things that I do…” Elton John
“People try to tell me thoughts they cannot defend…” The Moody Blues
“To start, press any key. Where’s the any key?” Homer Simpson.

Sorry to hijack, but…
Ummm…red_dragon, which Japanese culture are you talking about? The one I lived in for seven years had pretty much zero tolerance for any kinds of differences, sexual or otherwise. One of the most oft-repeated quotes in Japan is “The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.”

Though this is changing slowly, people in Japan are born with extremely rigid social expectations that follow them through every stage of life, and tolerance for a gay lifstyle isn’t part of that in any way.

Please note, I am not saying this is a good thing. People who are seen as not comforming to the social order (including homosexuals)are subjected to extremely cruel ostracism, including (sometimes especially) from their own families. These people very often choose suicide.


Drink up, dear. I made it just for you.

sig by WallyM7

Zion said:

Baloney.

Maybe this explains why you will never change your mind about anything, but to make such a blanket statement about everybody is simply ridiculous. I know people who were formerly very angry and who found peace just fine without God. I know depressed people who are now happy – without God. Just because you cannot conceive of something does not mean it cannot happen.