Why do some people believe racism by liberals is the worst kind?

Great Debates
41

I don’t know if this was his intent but Kearsen raises a valid point.

Saying that police and prison reform are racial issues is essentially saying that black people are law breakers. It’s the same as saying that programs that are aimed at alleviating poverty help black people or programs for treating drug addiction help black people or programs that combat illiteracy help black people.

The reality is that most of the people who are helped by these programs are not black and most black people do not need the help of these programs. The majority of black people in this country are middle-class, educated, employed, and have no criminal history. But these black people still face problems that their white peers do not; those are problems specific to racism.

42

Or it’s saying that those systems (police and prison) impact the black community more for reasons other than “blacks are more criminal than whites.” Selective policing, as just one obvious example.

43

Not necessarily - not if these institutions disparately mistreat black people, as it seems clear to me that they do.

44

If you say “We need to help black people by making our prisons better” can you hear the problem?

I agree that any institution which is treating black people differently than white people needs to reform. Doesn’t matter if it’s workplaces, restaurants, schools, hospitals, public transportation, gyms, banks, movie theaters, post offices, stores - or prisons. But singling out prisons is sending a message even if it’s an unintended one.

45

I think it only sends that message if one wants to hear it that way, and one is looking for out-of-context ways to shut down reform.

I mean, how does this conversation go?

Person 1: “We need to reform policing and prisons because those systems are decimating black communities.”

Person 2: “Ah ha! You’re saying that black people are bad, you racist!”

Person 1: “No, I’m saying that abusive and exploitative policies within the police and justice system target black people specifically, and also that everyone will benefit from these reforms, as the police have issues that go beyond just racism.”

Person 2: “You’re racist and think black people are thugs!!! Why did you pick prisons to reform instead of movie theaters?”

Person 1: “Because movie theaters aren’t tearing families apart and destroying livlihoods”

Person 2: “RACIST!!!”

. . . I mean, how does this play out? Do you suggest that we can’t discuss racism and the police/justice system because someone somewhere is going to disingenuously accuse the reformers of racism?

There are people who are just wrong on this issue, and I don’t think that coming up with perfect language is going to change their minds or make them magically support this cause.

And, frankly, they can inaccurately cry “racist” all they want; either they stand for reform or against it. If the argument for being against it is “I think you asked for it in the wrong way”, well, that’s just an excuse isn’t it? It’s using someone else’s sentence structure as the reason for being against doing anything about police abusing power.

46

  1. Stop being racist, crafting racist policies, making race a front page issue. Racists are racist because it garners support/power/fame. Laws for discriminating are on the books, enforce them. Liberals craft racist laws propagating more racism under the guise of fixing past racism. Dismantle affirmative action. Promote diversity but DO NOT legislate requirements for them.

  2. Race stops being front page news, race stops being any issue at all.

The “race card” goes away.

Also, “disparity” is a non starter. We are all different. If you want to address disparity, start by addressing the poverty that has stricken a good size of Americans. Good luck with that btw, since our wealth is all driven by the upper class (you know, those same guys who craft the laws on both sides of the aisle)

47

It is catering the least common denominator. The worst of your group, whomever they may be, shouldn’t have the policy for the entire group built around them.

48

You are missing the forest for the trees. If their is racism being propagated in a community, it is ALREADY ILLEGAL. Figure out a way of enforcement, if you need to re-structure police forces, prisons, then do so. No one is fighting you on this.

But the first step is crafting the laws that treat all people equally. After that happens then you can punish people equally.

49

In the “good old days” the biased press was making things worse.

50

After that gets done, it is on the groups themselves to police their own. No more glorifying rappers, rioters, murders or thugs because they went to jail.

If there is a specific cause to delve into regarding discrimination, then you do so. Currently EVERYTHING is a race issue.
It really isn’t.

51

I think you should go back in time, and sue the newspapers of yore!

Too much looking backwards will get you nothing in the present.

52

It should not be, but as it was shown by many cops, things would be better if they stop resisting change.

53

:rolleyes:

There is a reason why they say that “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

In this case it is not quite repeating, but it rhymes. A lot of the voices from that bigoted past resurged in talk radio, Fox news or “social” media.

54

I strongly disagree. Racism is real, it exists now, and we should be actively opposing it. Exposure is a major weapon against racism. Pretending racism doesn’t exist and ignoring it helps it grow.

55

I don’t know how much of this is directed at me personally. But it’s posted as a response to something I wrote, so I guess at least some of it must be.

First, I want to be clear: I am not making up an excuse to do nothing about racism. To repeat what I just said in my previous post, racism is real, it exists now, and we should be actively opposing it. Or to repeat something else I just said, I agree that any institution which is treating black people differently than white people needs to reform.

I’m not saying we should do less about racism. I’m saying we should be doing more. Fighting against racism in other people is a good thing and it’s something that everyone should be doing. But everyone should also make an effort to look inside themselves, find out what racism they have within them, and work on eliminating that.

I realize that’s not a popular message and I’ll probably get a lot of flak over it. Just as there are people who want to deny there is any racism in society, there are also people who want to deny just as strongly that there is any racism in themselves.

56

There is a whole lot of the middle you just left out. Oppose racism all you want to. Expose. Don’t pretend that it doesn’t exist but stop crafting laws that are divisive and racist by nature. Treat everyone equally, craft laws designed to raise up everyone equally.

All diversity laws, suggestions, college quotas, affirmative action. They are all racist.

57

Totally; to be clear, Little Nemo, I got that you were, I think, posting an opinion on how the current message sounds (or might sound) to some, and not arguing against reform or against fighting racism.

My point here is just that I don’t know how much that language really matters. I think that people looking for a reason to shut down reform efforts (whether for overtly racist reasons or otherwise) are going to find that reason anywhere. If it sounds like liberals are being racist by implying that black people are more likely to be disruptive members of society then that’s on the listener. At this point, ignoring or playing dumb to the fact that black people are heavily victimized by the justice system not because they do more bad things, but because the system is designed to target them, is an active choice people are making, and they’re doing it in order to not engage with the issue at hand.

If the agreed upon desired outcome is “less institutionalized and societal racism,” then those folks should gird their loins and go stand with the people who are fighting that fight. Refusing to engage and instead making up linguistic reasons why liberals are bad shows how much a person is truly interested in racial justice.

58

Here’s a recent example:

Quoted by The Hill:

“If an underpass was constructed such that a bus carrying mostly Black and Puerto Rican kids to a beach, […] in New York was designed too low for it to pass by, that that obviously reflects racism that went into those design choices.”

59

A recent example of what?

60

This reminds me of a scene in Fritz the Cat where a few girls approach a “black guy” (in Ralph Bakshi’s interpretation of an anthropomorphic animals world, crows are basically blacks) and start talking to him about how blacks are great, yada yada. It all comes off as patronizing to the crow/black to which he responds by trolling them in a way that implies he’s gay and then walks off.

Now I know this is a cartoon and not a real-life example, but the responses to it from some of the commenters are what I think are important:

They try to come across as virtuous because they’re talking about how much they “love” black people, when in reality, they’re being just as racist as those who make it clear that they hate that race.

Good portrayal of how ignorant these people that try to “speak for the lesser ones” are. They wear it like a badge, like its something to boast about while being racist themselves. They don’t care about the real plight, only how many good points they can get by being “sympathetic” to it.

I see a lot of people in the comments bashing Tumblr for this but this was before tumblr was even a dream. This isn’t tumblr, this is just human ignorance that is in all of us, and it’s probably in you. You can’t just pretend it’s a disease or you don’t behave like this because you don’t go on the website.

It’s good to educate yourself about races other than yours and try to imagine yourself in their shoes, but you shouldn’t go boasting about your experiences, and you shouldn’t completely lose who you are either. Experiences are meant to make you think about the choices you make and how to treat everyone with respect and dignity, not to make a plaque for yourself saying “Look at me, I’m a good person.”

As a black dude, the most annoying thing a lot of these kinds of white people do is view black & brown people has a collective, rather than the individuals they are. It’s like it’s just ingrained in their minds, like they can’t seem to escape that frame of thought, yet they all see themselves and other white people as individuals perfectly fine. I don’t get why I’m suddenly made a representative for every single darker-skinned person on the planet just because we have melanin. I swear, If I so much as sneeze they start thinking “why do all black people sneeze?” If i sip a glass of water it’s “of course he drinks water, he’s black!”

The “us vs them” mindset has to go. Also I hate things like in this video, when people randomly bring up politics and social justice issues when talking to me, like they think talking about the world’s problems is going to somehow gain my approval? It’s quite patronizing and comes out of nowhere. Then sometimes other idiots chime in like they know shit, when all I wanted to do was talk about video games with my friend, or just eat my meal, etc. Don’t even get me started on the subconscious dumbing down of one’s language when talking to a black person. If you want to get to know me, why are you talking about things I have nothing to do with, let alone care about? Why constantly bring up the fact that i’m brown, i’m more than just a color. Why is that something people are hung up on?

This is why I have come to just hate people and enjoy being mostly alone, with the exception of my group of close friends from highschool. Such are the woes of living in a super gentrified hipster YT trap of a town. I’m surrounded by one time of person. Irony is that, in my state, the farther north I go, the more it becomes like the racist deep south. Conservatives can be just as bad, if not worse, because they’re a lot more openly racist. I’d hate to live in a southern state, as open racism is a lot more dangerous than the passive/subconscious shit. Soon enough one of those crispy old right wing ladies will call the cops on a black guy just for breathing, if they haven’t already.

I hate Left and Right, they always like to think that they’re in the right, and the other side is full of crazies. You ask me? They might as well both be looking in a mirror.

I guess why some people think that “racism by liberals” is worse than actual racism is because it’s done through deception; someone who tries to virtue-signal for the sake of brownie points rather than through genuine humanitarianism. It’s like how some people say that what you can’t see right away is more dangerous than that which is more obvious, or something along those lines.