Smugness, in general, is annoying. Anyone disagree?
I actually saw a televangelist extol the virtues of faith, then stated plainly that God won’t pay for your car or get you out of jail if you commit a crime. He went on to say that personal responsibility was almost as important as faith. It shocked me because it went against most of the things I’d heard from other preachers.
Do you not realize that (some) religious people aren’t just pretending—that they really believe in an afterlife?
Atheist smugness doesn’t rule the planet.
It’s the same as with the rest of the us. Wisdom is scarce and quite evenly distributed across the entire spectrum of Homo sapiens sapiens groups and categories.
I didn’t say anything at all about pretending. I’m sure that most religious folk believe what they say they believe.
That has nothing to do with the harm that their words cause me when I am grieving.
The survey appears to be of “1,010 Americans who attend a Protestant or nondenominational church at least once a month.”
So it did not include, at the very least, the biggest Christian denomination of all – the Catholic Church.
I’m not a statistician, so I don’t know if those thousand people are enough of a sample to draw any conclusions about what American Christians as a whole believe.
And, while you may know some Catholics who believe the “same thing,” the “prosperity gospel” is absolutely, categorically not the teaching of the Catholic Church.
I think it’s likely that know more practicing Catholics than you. I can’t be sure of that, of course, but it’s likely, since I grew up in a large Catholic family, attended Catholic schools for the first thirteen years of my education, and am an active churchgoer in a large parish.
I don’t know a single person (Catholic or otherwise) who believes in the “prosperity gospel.”
Also, to say or imply that “the very concept of Heaven/Hell says that devotion/lack of is rewarded” is evidence that Christians by and large believe in the prosperity gospel is, at best, moving the goalposts quite a bit. The idea that salvation exists and is available to everyone isn’t evidence of any such thing.
Interesting. So if I were to give them the same respect as to what they believe as they do to what I believe, that amount of respect would be…?
It’s right in the part I quoted.
That’s understandable, and I would certainly advise anyone to avoid such “words of comfort,” no matter how much they believe them themselves, when trying to comfort someone who doesn’t share those beliefs.
But you seem to feel it should.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the teaching of the Catholic church. Most Catholics are utterly ignorant about church teachings, because most people are ignorant. Shit, how many Catholics have you met that think people turn into angels? They believe all sorts of stupid shit, because, I assume, the sermons aren’t about teaching the nuance of Catholic dogma, but instead filling seats by hitting bullet points that are very tasty to a general audience.
And I didn’t say salvation, I said that you get great wealth in Heaven if you were pious and poor, or great suffering in Hell if you were sinful and rich. It’s baked into the system. You may not believe that, but you’re way off kilter if you think many, if not most American Christians don’t.
Like I said, there is a link saying 1 in 4 Americans think God will always reward true faith with material blessings.
Two-thirds (63 percent) disagree with the idea that God will always reward true faith with material blessings. A quarter agree. Twelve percent are not sure.
That’s 75 million, is that close enough to tens of millions (which I said) for you?
That is correct, neither does yours .
That’s awesome.
Dear Bacon_Cheeseburger:
You have my permission to refrain from nodding or in any way making “respectful” comments about my theological understandings. You don’t know what they are, and I can’t imagine why your disbelief in something you know nothing about should offend me. Why would anyone be rationally expected to believe something when they don’t even know what the “something” is yet?
Where are you getting that number from?
Remember, as Saintly_loser pointed out, that survey doesn’t remotely claim to represent all Americans.
What really confounds them is when you give them more respect than they give you.
I grew up in a Catholic family similar to Saintly Loser. I went to Catholic schools, was an altar boy, took part in all of the sacraments, etc. Upon reaching adulthood, I started to question my beliefs; dabbling in other religions trying to find the right fit for myself. Over the last ten years I have oscillated between apathy, atheism and agnostic humanism. I agree with the OP that sometimes I feel the need to bite my tongue when faced with someone evangelizing their beliefs, but then I realize that part of their ministry and faith requires or recommends that they spread their message to the masses. While I believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses are frequently annoying and cultists, they are the reason that school children are not required to say prayers or the pledge of allegiance in classrooms. I think that Mormons can be pushy, but they are often the most pleasant and successful people you could know. I disagree with many tenets of Islam, but they kept science and progress alive during the Dark Ages and brought on the Renaissance. I think, as a society, we have to make tradeoffs and recognize that even though we may disagree with others and find them annoying, we are much better off coexisting in as peaceable a manner as possible.
Ah, I get what you mean. I didn’t say that they were pretending, I said that I do not get any comfort out of pretending.
If I believed, then I would probably feel differently, and wouldn’t have to pretend.
Respecting religion even among “Religious People” is iffy.
Maybe Lutherens and Catholics get along fine, but they don’t like Baptist? But if they all go to an interfaith council with Jews and Muslims, now they are on the same side. But Mormons aren’t allowed. Jews, Muslims, and Christians all disagree and in private don’t really respect each other’s theology, but they’d all agree Hindus are totally wrong. If Hindus, Abrahamics, Buddhist were on a panel discussion with an Atheist, they’d all gang up on the atheist.
and all of would gang up on my Crazy aunt and her crystals.
I am perhaps being unclear, the article I posted, which I felt was on point had a link within it. The link within it was the one below.
It says:
Most Americans don’t buy the prosperity gospel—especially if they have money.
Two-thirds (63 percent) disagree with the idea that God will always reward true faith with material blessings. A quarter agree. Twelve percent are not sure.
The number of 75 million I got from dividing 300 million (rounding our population down) by 4.
On their methodology, they say:
Methodology:
A demographically balanced online panel was used for interviewing American adults.
Three thousand surveys were completed from April 14-20, 2016. The sample provides 95 percent confidence that the sampling error from the online panel does not exceed plus or minus two percent. Margins of error are higher in sub-groups. Slight weights were used to balance gender, age, ethnicity, income, region and religion.LifeWay Research is a Nashville-based, evangelical research firm that specializes in surveys about faith in culture and matters that affect churches.
Those with evangelical beliefs were determined using the National Association of Evangelicals and LifeWay Research evangelical beliefs research definition.
I’m assuming they’re credible, as I don’t have time to look in detail, but I’m open (of course) to have my ignorance corrected.