That’s a good point. Though I’m under the impression that the folks who do Santa also do the whole tree & presents, family, etc. So maybe when I say non-supernatural, we should exclude those done for fun without any real belief behind it (by the adults).
Where everyone sits at a table and prays first, where everyone goes around the table thanking God for what they are thankful for, has been stripped of its religiosity? :head smack in disbelief:
Neither the prayer nor the God-thanking are necessarily part of one’s Thanksgiving celebrations. I’ve always liked that holiday precisely because it can be celebrated without regard to faith or lack thereof. If you want to go around the table and announce what you are thankful for, you can do so without any belief in a diety.
I am all for getting having a day off to get together at a table for a good meal, as long as everyone else also has a good meal and a table they are welcomed at. America is not yet very good at that yet, in spite of purported religiousness. Time to practice what is preached.
Right. When growing up, we never celebrated Thanksgiving with a prayer and thanking God, even though my parents are religious (Muslim, so maybe that had something to do it). But I personally have found it very rare to have those elements unless one is going to a Thanksgiving with someone they know from Church. I am guessing that some religious family members may try to religion it up - but I am under the impression those folks will religion up holidays like Memorial Day and Independence Day as well.
That’s certainly not a part of any Thanksgiving I’ve ever attended.
For sure I’ve seen such scenes in movies. But IMO that’s just another example of Xians unwittingly assuming their way is everyone’s way.
The closest I have been is “Let us all take a moment in silent thanks”, which could mean prayer or just thinking how good things are right now.
It’s a pretty worldwide holiday. So what goes on in e.g. Germany may well be different from e.g. Lebanon. I can’t speak to what best for there.
As to the USA, if I was Emperor we’d de-emphasize the commercialism of it, put a lot more emphasis on the fact it really is what I said earlier, a syncretic multi-cultural, multi-millennia old, generic festival celebrating year end and human fellowship. Ideally it would get a new name as well.
Which would have the effect of de-Christianizing it for the many people who are off-put by that aspect of it. While leaving room for the Saturnalia set, the Wiccans, and yes, the Christians, to put their favored flavor on their personal celebration of it. But with the awareness that no one of those groups owns it.
Since I am unlikely to be made Emperor, I’ll do what I can. Be the change I want to see and celebrate my year end as I choose, emphasizing those parts of the many traditions I see value in and ignoring the rest. Ideally without interference from others determined to tell me how their version is the only “real version”.
This is what I was trying to say but did it very poorly. Thank you saying it as I wished to.
What my family does is enjoy each other, cooking for each other and inviting people to join us who may not have the stable resources for food nor a consistent welcome at a table. When we go around the table it is about thanking one another. We aren’t confused about who/what is bestowing the largesse with which we flourish.
We all also put it into practice throughout the year between Thanksgivings. Volunteering, food bank support, welcoming all but strangers into our homes to live with us so that they can escape abuse.
If I’m at someone’s home and they pray, I wait quietly and respectfully but I decline to go through the motions for the sake of keeping peace.
4th of July and Memorial Day where I am in middle America doesn’t seem to carry much traditional religious content.
I’d imagine that movie and TV producers and directors are likely less religious than the general population, so I’d argue that it is more those media creators assuming what Xtians do on Thanksgiving 
Good point. That kind of sizzle sells.
That reminds me. What time should I show up at your place for pie? Then I like to play board games. You in?
I subscribe to the magazine Foreign Affairs put out by the Council on Foreign Relations. Which sends out e-newsletters a couple times a week. This article happened to be in today’s e-issue.
Giving Up on God:The Global Decline of Religion
I don’t know whether it can be read for free but the very high level summary is that the over 20 years ending with their latest data from 2017 religion is in decline almost everywhere except the Muslim countries.
Rich, poor, developing or not doesn’t alter the high level trend away from mass religion. And in many countries the level is fast declining to a point of no return after which it typically collapses altogether. This latter occurs largely because religious adherents are largely made by their parents. Once enough parents don’t indoctrinate their kids, those kids don’t indoctrinate the next generation. That first mass un-indoctrinated generation is just entering their child-raising years with predictable results.
Posited reasons are essentially increasing physical & food security and overall safety plus a decreasing need to emphasize high birth rates simply to ensure society’s survival. Plus increasing levels of education, but this is seen as very secondary. Ultimately desire for religion or it’s lack lie not in the rational realm, but the psychosocial realm where formal education has little reach.
The authors are far short of triumphalist; they’re descriptive, not prescriptive. They point out that a rapid decrease in security can easily result in a concomitant surge in religiosity.
Overt mass religiosity is demonstrably on the wane across most of the planet. But if one believes in the broad sweep of Progress, this will continue until irreligion is the official position everywhere and most human’s individual stance is “Meh. What was all the fuss about back in Ye Olden Tymes like the 20th Century & before?”
Hopefully you like Catan, Ticket to Ride, and Agricola. Though we may throw in a few Codenames.
Granted I haven’t hosted Thanksgiving in years.
What business would it be of mine to try to strip a religious holiday, important as such to many people, of its religion? That would be both obnoxious and ineffective.
What I would like would be to have it generally acknowledged a) that it is in its essence a religious holiday and b) that not every American celebrates it or should be expected to. That would, ideally, include its ceasing to be a Federal holiday; and would also include everyone being willing to cheerfully accept general holiday wishes, and to ideally give general holiday wishes in that form except in cases in which they know that the person celebrates Christmas. (Many atheists celebrate something around midwinter, and there are secular holidays, so I don’t think ‘happy holidays’ excludes atheists, even if the root of the word is in “holy”.)
It would not necessarily IMO preclude municipalities from putting on a Christmas party, so long as they’re willing to also host celebrations of any other religion or non-religion, Spaghetti Monster or birthday parties or whatever, in the same fashion. In areas that are heavily Christian, this might well in effect amount to them just putting on the Christmas party; which is OK with me but I think they should stop saying things along the lines of what a town near me was putting in the paper, which was that their Christmas celebration would ‘unite everybody in the town’. Saying things like that excludes non-Christians in a fashion in which having the party doesn’t – they were saying in effect that those people in their town who aren’t Christian don’t exist. If it had been my town, I’d have written a letter.
Joining in the chorus: I’ve never been at a Thanksgiving where people did that.
We do sometimes go round saying what we’re thankful for. There’s nothing essentially religious about that. I can be thankful that people showed up for dinner, or that the cat didn’t die after all, or whatever, without crediting a deity for it.
I would expect that in households where people ordinarily pray before eating that they’d also pray before eating at Thanksgiving. But it certainly isn’t an essential part of the holiday.
Growing up Thanksgiving for my family did not involving praying or speeches about thankfulness - it was a celebration when we could all get together and share a meal together.
Although the word “holiday” does come from holy day the meaning has changed somewhat. You can have a non-religious holiday (or, in some cases, bring religion into a non-religious holiday like the American 4th of July). People really do seem to need that coming together/celebrating/feasting thing as part of their social lives.
Just about every culture in the temperate zones or higher latitude seems to have some sort of holiday around the winter solstice for their hemisphere that emphasizes lights (probably because it’s just so damn dark), feasting, and a break from work.
That’s what annoys me most about the “Jesus is the reason for the season” folks - um, no, actually, that sort of thing pre-dates Jesus and appears even where Jesus followers aren’t.
Just to call attention to this point. When she said this
She was being sarcastic.
Those are the opposite of her personal beliefs. She was referring to the tendency of the mass of Xians to blithely assume that’s part of everyone’s Thanksgiving celebration.
Ref this post for the details.
Here’s a hint for those of you who think the tone in your voice should be obvious to the rest of us; it’s not. We can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic as we’re just reading words on a screen. So either don’t be sarcastic or make it plainly obvious (ideally by saying you’re being sarcastic) that is the tone you’re intending.
:head slap in disbelief: wasn’t a clue?
I’m sorry, no it wasn’t enough of a clue. Please remember, we’re just reading words on a screen.
Help me out here, I’m new. Don’t look now but SDMB can be a bit of an ‘old boys/girls club’. The conventions of expected expression aren’t transparent or easily acquired.
So what is the shorthand desired? /s/?
I’m not going to announce every single time <<heah, I’m being sarcastic!/>>. Takes absolutely all the fun out of it.