Why do you believe in God ?

Great Debates
1

Is it because you were raised to believe?

Is it because you believe in the bible as the word of God ?

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany ?

Is it because the existence of the universe and life is incomprehensible to you as a matter of inevitable progression without the influence of superior intelligence?

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?

Ever since I participated on this board, I have found my faith wavering. One of the pillars of my faith is crumbling. From a belief in the bible as the infallible word of God to a belief in cherry picked verses, I imagine God in my own unique version. I still can’t give up these verses, since the only basis that I can comprehend a loving God is because only in the bible is it stated so. Yet every day, when I have my moments thinking about God and his relevance in my life, I consider the fact that I was brain-washed in my childhood, and that my little epiphanies which I have now forgotten were way overblown in my estimation.
The major thing that is really holding my faith together so far is my inability to comprehend how the universe and life came to be without a superior intelligence.
That is a very shallow reason for faith in God. And it is not enough for a faith in a loving God. Yet I need a faith in a loving God, so I’ll continue to ascribe truth to those verses in the bible which tell me so and ignore the others. Still, that makes me somewhat uncomfortable.

By the way, I’ve tried a lot of different churches and even had pastors try to make me fall into catchers but it never worked for me.

2

Is it because you were raised to believe?

Not directly, but I’m sure being exposed to the idea made a difference. If no one in the history of the species had ever used put words to the concept, I would have had to have invented my own, assuming I ever decided to try to put it into words even to myself, and there’s no guarantee of that.

Is it because you believe in the bible as the word of God ?

Hardly!

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany ?

Yes, most centrally.

Is it because the existence of the universe and life is incomprehensible to you as a matter of inevitable progression without the influence of superior intelligence?

No. To seriously consider the idea of God existing, I had to seriously consider the idea of God not existing (insofar as that’s what “consider” means). The fearful alternative was not that the universe did not in fact exist, it very self-evidently did. It was that things had no meaning. By “things” I mostly mean our sense that there “ought to be” kindness and sharing, and freedom and the chance to do pleasurable things, as opposed to the world revolving around competitive coercion, triumph of the boot that gets into the most faces, etc. Did these “ought to be” feelings have any intrinsic validity? Was there any reason to think we should be warmly and fairly disposed to one another, or were those feelings irrelevant, serving no purpose?

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?

See above. That our appreciation of what we loosely call “love” is an appreciation of something that really does (potentially and inevitably) make the world go 'round — that life can actually be that way — means the laws of nature applicable to human life are love-affirmative.

Ever since I participated on this board, I have found my faith wavering. One of the pillars of my faith is crumbling. From a belief in the bible as the infallible word of God to a belief in cherry picked verses, I imagine God in my own unique version. I still can’t give up these verses, since the only basis that I can comprehend a loving God is because only in the bible is it stated so. Yet every day, when I have my moments thinking about God and his relevance in my life, I consider the fact that I was brain-washed in my childhood, and that my little epiphanies which I have now forgotten were way overblown in my estimation.

Once upon a time, or actually several “onces” upon many times ranging from 4000 to 1000 years ago give or take, some folks wrote down some stuff that you know as “Bible”. Some of those people were encoding into human words some understandings that, I think, were truly understandings of God.

I say this as a person who does not revere the Bible as special, and as a person who is not a Christian. And I say you need not believe that Jehovah dictated in Hebrew, Latin, or Greek, the Literal Word of God in order to find compelling meaning in the verses that move you.

I would suggest that you will also find some in places outside the Bible, and that it does not lessen God to do so or to acknowledge that.
The major thing that is really holding my faith together so far is my inability to comprehend how the universe and life came to be without a superior intelligence.

Well, if you work backwards, you have the universe and intelligent life being (absolute fact) and in asking how that happened you have no choice but to ascribe the results to a process sufficient to having intelligence exist as a subset of what it constitutes. If God is not “a superior intelligence”, the universe nevertheless cannot be said to exist as a consequence of things lesser than intelligence. If we ascribe its existence to, let’s say, “the natural laws that govern forces and chance and how they may play out over time”, we have to acknowledge that those natural laws intrinsically describe patterns of which intelligence is a reflection. For me, it’s simpler to grasp and express as “The universe is God and possesses intelligence”.

That is a very shallow reason for faith in God. And it is not enough for a faith in a loving God. Yet I need a faith in a loving God, so I’ll continue to ascribe truth to those verses in the bible which tell me so and ignore the others. Still, that makes me somewhat uncomfortable.

Unless you require it of yourself, you do not need a deductive reason-path that starts from some rational naturalistic axioms and concludes a God out of them, you know :wink:
By the way, I’ve tried a lot of different churches and even had pastors try to make me fall into catchers but it never worked for me.

Ask God to take you on for private lessons. Seriously. Become a faith or a denomination unto yourself. And give yourself permission within the framework of your own faith to not know things. It’s how one learns.
On readover: umm, no condescension intended, it’s just my writing style

3

That’s mine.

Because it is eminently logical.

It’s all a matter of how you define words and how you draw inferences. I start with goodness, and I define it as that aesthetic which edifies. God exists because of goodness; that is, goodness compels the existence of God. That is the nature of edification, obviously: it seeks to increase. It therefore requires an agent Who will facilitate it. That facilitation is what I call love; thus, love is the facilitation of goodness.

So, that’s why I believe in a loving God. It’s what He’s for. He is the agent Who facilitates goodness.

4

Is it because you were raised to believe?

Yes and no. I was brought up Christian and I continue to stick with it, but I’ve come to where I am in my faith through my own personal experiences and thoughts.

Is it because you believe in the Bible as the word of God?

This is a tough one. I think the Bible is a deeply inspirational and holy book, but I also think it’s obvious that some of the events are allegorical in nature–Noah’s flood, for example, which coincides neatly with an ancient Babylonian creation myth. That doesn’t take away from its value for me.

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany?

I’ve had a couple of those along the line, and they’ve helped me along, but for the most part I just feel God’s presence and I know. I pray quite a bit, and I try to keep Him (or Her, or whatever) in my heart, and that knowledge–that feeling–is it for me.

Is it because the existence of the universe and life is incomprehensible to you as a matter of inevitable progression without the influence of superior intelligence?

Wow, loaded question. Um. I do think God started the universe off, definitely, and that He takes an active interest in its proceedings, but I also believe He plays by certain rules that we’ve come to discover (evolution, for one).

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?

Yes. Definitely yes. I think God’s essence, God’s very nature, is love, and that He works in us when we love–our neighbours, ourselves, Himself, life, everything.
Was that any good?

5

Is it because you were raised to believe?

That has something to do with it, but it wouldn’t keep me believing without some other reason for doing so. But in my family and other people I saw growing up, I saw examples of sincere faith in God, and how such faith coexisted with and complemented both intelligence and moral goodness.

Is it because you believe in the bible as the word of God ?

Not in a simplistic, “the Bible says so” way; but I do see something special about the Bible and some of the people therein, especially Jesus.

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany ?

I’m not sure. I’ve had personal experiences that make more sense given the existence of God than they would otherwise, but nothing that I would call solid evidence or that would have won me over from unbelief to belief.

Is it because the existence of the universe and life is incomprehensible to you as a matter of inevitable progression without the influence of superior intelligence?

Yes and no. Every now and then I’ll have a moment where I think, “Wow, isn’t it amazing that ____ could exist,” and I’ll find it both more credible and more satisfying to believe that an amazing God planned it that way than that it happened completely by chance. But I don’t think this constitutes proof of anything.

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?

I definitely believe in love because I have personally experienced it and seen it in action. And I believe that somehow, when I see such love, I’m seeing the nature of God made manifest.

And I believe in a loving God because the people I trust the most to know about God, the people who really sound like they know what they’re talking about when they talk about God, speak of a loving God.

6

Yup.

I’m not sure I do, in the sense that most people who mention a “loving god” to. Most of my gods can be jerks on occasion.

7

I believe in God because I believe that such belief is merited based on cosmological, teleological, ontological, moral and noological grounds.

8

No…although I think I pretty much accepted the Christmas story as a child we never went to church and God and the Bible were rarely even mentioned.
Is it because you believe in the bible as the word of God ?

No. The word of God is in your heart and no place else.

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany ?
Yes, several.

It’s more that I can’t see life as temporary.

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?

It seems that the essence of God is Love and Truth and as the songs say. “Love is the answer”

Spiritual growth is about change. It requires that we let go of certain concepts when the time is right. That can be disturbing if you are leaving popular spiritual traditions behind that others you know hold dear.

You can find spiritual truth in the Bible and anywhere else if that is what you are seeking. My own journey has led me from traditional Christion beliefs to soemthing much more independent and personnal. I’ve come to see God as the spiritual force that ties us all together and our inner voice that calls us to seek and grow, rather than a seperate entity that is out there somewhere. That works for me but I believe each person must choose their own path. I hope you find your way.

What do you mean by “fall into catchers”?

9

Is it because you were raised to believe?
Partly, although I was raised to believe lots of things that have changed as society has changed over the last fifty years, and as I came to maturity and questioned those beliefs.

Is it because you believe in the bible as the word of God ?
Well… that’s tough. I believe the bible reflects the word of God, but I do not think that means that it hasn’t been molded by human hands. “Divinely inspired” are my tag-words: the bible was written down by human beings, most of whom were intimate with the divine. By the way, I believe that there are many paths to God; I think the failure of most religions is that they think that one God means only one path. I think God is more complex than that, and there can be many different paths that lead to what God wants of us: to be nice to each other.

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany ?
Partly, and I continue to have such personal experiences. When I’m faced by difficulties, I pray for the strength to handle them, and I find that I’m granted such strength. When I’m beset by grief, I pray for the courage to deal with it. And so forth. So, prayer seems to work for me.

**Is it because the existence of the universe and life is incomprehensible to you as a matter of inevitable progression without the influence of superior intelligence?**I don’t know about “incomprehensible,” but it seems difficult for me to imagine that human intelligence and self-consciousness could just evolve from nothingness. Don’t get me wrong: I certainly accept evolution, as I accept all science. It just means that God is far more complicated than the biblical writers could have imagined.

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?
I don’t, not in the sense you mean. I believe in a God of justice and mercy, who is a sovereign and a parent. “God is love” is a Christian notion. I believe that God loves His children, the analogy being to a parent, but there is way more to God than just “love.”

10

And maybe there’s more to “love” than just paternalism. :wink:

11

I went to religious school as a kid but we did not have intense discussion of matters spiritual at home. I was left to find it for myself.

No. The bible is a simulacrum and a symbol and I practically never take it literally.

Yes.

A seed of inspiration may have been required but I don’t believe in an interventionist God so the complexity doesnt bother or mystify me.

That is precisely it.

Form your own personal relationship with God. The dogma is possibly holding you back. The bible is dangerous and frequently misused by people who probably make you uncomfortable with it at times. I know that’s my experience.

The bible is an inspiration, or perhaps a visual/literary aid, much like the Tarot. It’s a spectacle you hold up to see the universe. It is in a sense rose-colored, but that is specifically so that you see the universe for the love that is in it. It’s good to have a few other accessories to help you do this if that is your preferred style and you feel the bible is wearing thin.

12

Yes

All words are the word of God.

Several.

I wouldn’t say superior intelligence as much as aggregate intelligence. If I am intelligent then the macros which I belong to are also so, even if it is just I and my brethren experiencing for them. Holding a rock is having a relationship with that rock. The rock is being experienced, and is an integral part of the experience. The being is not just the human, it is the human holding the rock, standing on the Earth, conceiving of the rock.

Love has no opposite, it can exist anywhere. It is the desire to understand one’s universe. God and Love are synonymous.

Losing faith in a religion and losing faith in God need not go hand in hand. May you learn the truth, whatever that is.

Intelligence is an intrinsic part of order. We are merely neurons firing back and forth, yet we still move through life with a sense of purpose and make choices beyond just bouncing atoms, or maybe we don’t. Basically as I see it, the very fact that I am asking these questions is evidence of consciousness. If I am conscious then it all is conscious.

Sounds like you need to move out into a milieu that would be completely foreign to you. I’ve been getting info from lots of different faiths just to explore. I’m not looking for a home amongst any of them particularly, I just want to see what’s out there. I like the idea of being of all faiths. I would love to go on the Hajj one day, but that doesn’t mean I am any more Muslim than I am Christian or Buddhist. The ism seems like one of the least relevant parts of it to me.

But when it comes down to it, I believe in God because I believe that God is simply the truth, whatever is true, is what is God, whatever is not true, is not God. So by that token, I believe disbelief in God, is merely a semantic error. It’s like saying “The truth is not true.”

Erek

13

Is it because you were raised to believe?
As others have said, I’m sure my upbringing has had a lot to do with my faith, but if it didn’t make sense to me, I wouldn’t believe regardless of what I’ve been taught.

Is it because you believe in the bible as the word of God ?
No. And that’s a funny answer, because I do believe in the bible (the Old Testament, actually) as the word of G-d. But for me, It’s not a cause-and-effect thing; I believe in G-d, and, separately, knowing the circumstances in which we received the Bible and having read it, I believe it’s the word of G-d. Specifically, I subscribe to the Orthodox Jewish take on the Old Testament’s divinity: The 5 books of Moses are written by G-d, the Prophets section is written by the prophets and is essentially a recounting of their prophesy and its circumstances and fulfillment, and the last section is divinely inspired but not divine.

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany ?
In part. Not really experiences, but I get rushes of feeling sometimes, helpful, restorative moments in which I am very aware of the presence of G-d. But those are just nice perks-- they’re reassuring, but they’re not really a source of faith.
Actually, my faith in G-d is very much tied to my faith in Judaism. An isolated faith in G-d does very little for me; I need the whole picture for things to make sense.

Is it because the existence of the universe and life is incomprehensible to you as a matter of inevitable progression without the influence of superior intelligence?
Certainly I can’t see the creation of this world without some sort of guiding presence. And I have come to believe that if I were the highest form of life in the world, then there’s no way the world wouldn’t be a blackened, smoking shell by now. Humans are far too fallible to be running a world that’s doing this well. I haven’t even been able to type this post without having to go back to fix 20 typos-- how is my species the most advanced in the world?

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?
I don’t, exactly. I even think that the emphasis on G-d as “loving” is the reason that many people have lost their faith: If G-d loves me, then why is my life so hard? Why do bad things happen to anyone if G-d loves us all?
More precisely, I don’t feel that G-d is loving, exactly, but G-d is right. Nothing happens to me (with the exception of things that I have control over) unless it was supposed to. That’s not to say that you’ve necessarily done something to deserve it; Events that happen are not automatically to be seen in the context of rewards and punishment, they’re just what needs to happen.
For instance, this morning, my brother’s car battery was dead, and then I threw up after breakfast. (Sorry if that’s TMI.) These two things combined so that I missed my train home after visiting my brother, and I had to cancel my ticket and get a new one for 4 hours later. If I believed that G-d was loving, I might be mildly annoyed–if G-d loves me, why is he messing with me like this? And if I believed that the events in my life were because I particularly deserved them based on something I’d done, I’d be sitting here wondering what minor infraction I’d committed to deserve the delay. But the way I see it, I can just be zen about it-- there’s ovbiously a reason that I’m going on the 4:63 instead of the 12:36. Maybe I’ll sit next to someone it’s important for me to meet, or I’ll accomplish something here in the next few hours that is needed of me. I don’t know. But it was right. (Obviously, when worse things happen, it’s hard to keep events in that perspective, but I try.)

14

I didn’t post the first two times I opened this thread.

I finally realized why. I don’t have a belief in God. My belief is trivial with respect to God. God must exceed my apprehension in every possible consideration; else He is only powerful, or great, rather than divine. Christ is human, and He is the expression of God’s love for humans. Our understanding of Christ is limited, and inherently flawed. But at least we can love Christ, because He is human. He is the miracle we needed.

I have faith in God. I have faith in Christ. I distrust belief.

Yes I am affected by two thousand years of tradition. Six, if you include all the texts at face value. No, I do not worship a book. Yes, my faith was gained from a miracle. I don’t understand infinity, and distrust any explanation of it.

I accept that God loves because I am lifted up from misery by that love, now, and always. Do you question the existence of water when you get thrown into the ocean? Just be as you think a loving God would want you to be. Good is better than evil, you know? Love is good, whether what you think God has any referent in reality, or not.

“And they said unto Him, ‘But, Lord, we did not know you!’”

Don’t worry. He knows you. Salvation is His job, and He is much better at it than priests, and evangelists.

Tris

15

I was raised going to church three times a week, so belief in God just went without saying. My belief was further cemented by epiphany-type feelings.

As I matured, I came to realize that God’s existence wasn’t necessary for anything that I see, or had ever seen. So I stopped believing.

If that’s all that’s holding you back, consider this. If the universe couldn’t exist without a cause, then what caused God? After all, God must be more complex and awesome than his creation, right? So could you comprehend how God came to be without a superior intelligence to create him?

16

From the Book of Mormon, “The course of God is one eternal round.”
It’s near impossible for us to comprehend a lack of time and space. Our brains just don’t work that way. I remeber a polish Physicist here in TN getting his masters. He was writing a thesis about black holes in which the hole expanded outward and down by it’s own force until it formed a round that sustained itself. Most of it was over my head but as he explained I tought of this passage from the BOM.

Of course it’s not proof or even evidence, it just speaks to the “there are more things in heaven and earth” factor.

17

Because Bobby Henderson showed me the light…

18

After years of belief (I was raised Catholic) my belief is now a matter of convieniece. A God concept is an easy place to hang hope and gratitude and the problems with comprehending the universe with my limited intellect. Is that Belief? A friend’s baby girl has cancer. I spend a lot of time right now “directing hope” that she will be OK. Its indistiguishable from the prayer I would have done years ago except perhaps in the level of doubt. And there has always been doubt that prayer would do any good.

19

I prefer the term “Creator” rather than “God”. But for purposes of this thread I’ll agree to your terms.

Is it because you were raised to believe?
I was raised in a church that bordered on being a cult to believe in the God of the Bible, both Testiments. I have since rejected that version of “God”. Over the last fews years I have found myself less & less of a Christian, and more of a Deist.

Is it because you believe in the bible as the word of God ?
No. I now consider the Bible to be almost entirely a book of warped history & ancient fairy tales. My current beliefs, to quote Thomas Paine, "the only word of God is in the creation we behold."

Is it because you had a personal experience or epiphany ?
Except for my very existance, no.

Is it because the existence of the universe and life is incomprehensible to you as a matter of inevitable progression without the influence of superior intelligence?
Life seems too complicated, too exact, to have happened by accident.

And finally, why do you believe in a loving God ?
I’m not sure I do. In fact, I’m open to the idea that “God” doesn’t give a shit, or at very least, doesn’t intervene and allows us to chart our own lives.