I considered it, but like the Five Hundred, it was the first model year and I didn’t feel like being a guinea pig. It was also expensive and too SUV-like. I might have to get another car in the near future and I’d probably get a Five Hundred before a Freestyle. I also looked at the Escape, but it’s capacity wasn’t any greater than the Subaru and it was taller and heavier. I just wanted something like my old Escort but with AWD.
ISTR seeing familiar names on some cars in Europe that looked very different from anything that American car manufacturers sell here. I wish they’d sell those cars here in the States.
Wow. I just compared Ford UK and Ford US - I hadn’t realised just how different the product lineups were. Although the Ka might be just a bit weeny for US roads.
And as we all know, all debates, all controversies every issue are all ultimately about homophobia and the oppression of gays … I mean, we all know that people who drive big American cars are all just itching to beat gays to death. :rolleyes: Somehow I don’t think that Detroit’s failure to focus on gays is in any way relevant to this discussion.
And I don’t think my requirements will change too much when I do have kids. I think current plans are to have two kids, and I know very well that two kids can fit very well in the back seat of a normal (non-minivan, non-SUV) car- my parents always had regular cars, and my sister and I were just fine. We fought over “you’re on my side” sometimes, but show me siblings who have never done that, and I’ll show you parents who are lying or in denial.
If there were as many :rolleyes: as there are electrons in the universe, there still wouldn’t be enough to express my opinion of people who buy SUV’s to “keep their kids safer”- figuring that if they’re in an accident, they want the people in the other vehicle to be injured or killed instead of them (Whatever happened to hoping that nobody would be injured or killed?).
Our PT cruiser worked really well for us as a single couple, our other car was a four door saturn. The minute we had twins, those two cars really weren’t the best. The Cruiser’s plusses require that the back seats are available to flip, fold or be removed. Nail them down with car seats and the car gets quite a bit less convenient.
The Saturn got replaced by an Avalanche (Yet another SDMB posterchild for whipping). It’s been GREAT. Say what you will about SUV’s, they’re handy. People like handy. It had nothing to do with ‘safety <sob> for the <sob>* Children!*’ It’s big enough the kids can’t kick the seats, it’s great for bringing home beds (and groceries, and that time we rented the travel trailer, and the time we got 28 inches of snow) It’s had a recall or two, the door panel had to be replaced, and the 4x4 transfer case control unit had to be replaced under warrantee…but it’s been a great vehicle. We luuurve it. It works well for our needs (and desires…let be real here, you buy the vehicle you WANT, not the one you NEED)
Off the top of my head there are three domestic cars which fit your needa Anne. The Dodge Neon, the Chevy Aveo, and the Ford Focus. I’m sure you will hate all of them, but don’t say they don’t exist.
Gays don’t have money to spend on cars? Of course it’s relevent. Just as relevent as marketing towards women. Straight men get hot fast sports cars marketed directly at them. You think minivans aren’t marketed towards families? Give me a break. :rolleyes:
I would actually be interested in seeing your notes. Let’s face it; very few people test drive both domestics and foreign cars, so it should make for interesting comparisons.
There is a difference between designing so that all components have a natural life, and designing to reduce the expected life of a part. I agree that this is not always bad, but it is if the market wants a longer life, which is what the auto market wanted.
It can go the other way. Bell System phones (and just about everything) were designed for long (20 year) life. I went to a seminar after divestiture about how to design quality out of components - when people were buying phones, it no longer made sense to design for the rental market.
For your example - fans fail before the components they are supposed to protect, so you have to be a little bit careful. Over engineering the fan, and reducing its life, will not add to the life of the system.
This may be a cultural thing also. In the '80s/'90s I heard that when Japanese customers checked out a printed circuit board, they turned it over and made sure that all the through hole wires were trimmed to the exact same length. This was very important to them - they saw it as an indicator of attention to detail.
Since this was brought up, and I already had heard of the boycott, I decided to look into it because I didn’t know what became of it. You should be pleased. At first Ford said they stop support gay groups and their activities like sponsoring gay pride parades, and advertising in gay magazines. But apparently they’ve reneged and told the AFA to shove it.
I think about the Neon a lot (no, really I do, I worked in Marketing in the Detroit area for years). Around the time I graduated college (97) it was a very popular starter/low-end car. It was cute, cheap, good mileage, people liked it.
Then after a few years Dodge just let the brand languish and ignored it completely. I hardly see any on the road anymore. WTF!? I am not personally a fan of the car (because it has poor visibility to short drivers) BUT clearly lots of people were at one time. Honda will never, ever stop flogging the Civic, but It seems like when Dodge builds some brand equity on a small car they have no idea what to do with it after the initial push. With the right branding Neon could be alot more popular than it is. Dodge, j’accuse!
They’re replacing the NEON for 06 or 07, I believe. From what I have seen of spy shots and such, you probably won’t be happy with the result, but who knows: Despite the bad rap that hatches get in the US, I love 'em and I suspect I am not alone.
I’m not anti-hatchback and the coupe version looks kind of cute. I don’t have any particular arguement with the redesign.
But it all goes to show Detroit doesn’t understand branding. On the one had they take a perfectly reasonable brand, like Neon and just chuck the baby with the bathwater when the image gets a bit stale. I really don’t get why they don’t continue to use the “Neon” name for a small, sporty, low-end starter car. Does it have some loathesome brand image that I’m not aware of?
Back to Civic. Honda will call practically anything a Civic – wasn’t the Del Sol badged as a Civic? And why? Because people like “Civic” – it carries a positive reputation with it that people dig on. They could probably split the Civic line into two to three brands if they wanted to, with different names for stripped down basic model, median average build and luxury option packages. But they don’t, because people get warm fuzzies from the “Civic” name, and that’s what we call branding, folks.
If they don’t support the brand, the ins and outs of comparative mechanical merit don’t mean much. Let’s say you bought a Neon right out of school in 1997 and really loved it. Now, its 10 years later and you’d like to buy another one, well, too bad, so sad, we discontinued it. How can you build loyalty when a brand only stays on the market less than 2 financing cycles (ie 5 year loan periods)!?
Meanwhile 70s-era behemoth brands that were the subject of open ridicule the last anyone heard of them (like the Malibu and Impala) get a second chance!? What’s the world coming to!?
It makes me meshugge thinking about it.
If you’re looking for a neon-ish car, check out the Chevy Cobalt. It’s supposed to be a very good car.
From my experience with the Cobalt, it has many of the same characteristics of recently released American cars: Excellent engine and powertrain, decent handling, and a sub-par interior. If I were in the market for a small, economical car, I’m not sure the Cobalt would make my top 5 list. And I LIKE American cars (six Cadillacs in a row).
However, it is definitely a step up from the Crapalier.
I’m not looking for a Neonish car, are we even in the same discussion, Sam?
The Case of the Dodge Neon is the perfect example of how American car companies don’t know how to
a) sell
b) build brand support for
c) consider Opal’s needs in
a perfectly adequate small car.
I’m not sure what the issue is, or why they so consisently drop the ball.
BMW’s available with night vision starting in March.
How come American car manufacturers never seem to have the latest, coolest stuff?
I really do hope you’re making some joke here. You are, right?
http://www.autotrader.com/research/shared/article.jsp?article_id=2293&refpage=safetyinfo&restype=used
(bolding mine)
The general consensus with these systems is: “Oo! Neat! I can see in the dark! Coooool!”
“Wait. The screen isn’t in the normal driver field of vision. I have to look down at this screen. Hey. This thing has no depth-perception. Wow. I spent how much for this useless option?”
Yes, it was kind of a joke.