Ehm… that may vary a lot by things such as where the sleepover takes place, who else is in the house and the individual child. My BFF and I slept over at each other’s house (and me at her grandparents’) quite frequently until age 14, when she got a boyfriend and suddenly all her female friends became supporting cast; her brothers didn’t have any friends sleeping over until those friends were singular and of the opposite sex. 1.SiL’s first lunch with a family she wasn’t related to by blood was the first time she had lunch with my family; her brother’s, the first time he had lunch with his first fiancée’s family; their father was a controlling jerk but no-one can accuse him of not being an equal-opportuniyy controlling jerk, he wanted to control everybody period. All families involved are from the same cultural background.
Shouldn’t they? In your experience, do teenagers respond compliantly to the spirit and letter of prohibitions? In your scenario I’d be concerned about why she wants to date an 18 year old 3x loser in the first place. Not saying I’d bless the arrangement or refrain from strongly discouraging it–but I’m glad my girls had the sense and confidence to avoid shitbags.
Possibly, I’d be more concerned about how an 18 year old has 3 felonies and is still walking the streets–pre-18 convictions most likely having been expunged, I’d say he was having a busy year. 
The tradition of a young man asking for a father’s permission to court his daughter is directly related to the patriarchy and the idea that a man has ownership of the sexuality of the women in his family. It’s not related to any kind of “stronger bond” between fathers and daughters.
Point, and on a case-by-case basis I’m sure there was some of this. But SA is 65% Hispanic and this occurred far too often for it to be coincidental, and in our conversations with some of the parents, it was as I said: The younger sons were allowed more agency over their bodies than the older girls.
No, they shouldn’t.
At what point does a young lady get to make her own decisions, then? To get back to the OP, it looks like we’re illustrating two different manifestations of ‘protective father’. Correct me if I misread you or if you have a better way of saying it, but it sounds like you’re more of an authoritarian, “Father knows best” sort of guy. You’re an adult who has maybe seen a thing or two and who feels strongly that his experience ought to be respected and accepted–to the point of being allowed to dictate, at least in extreme situations, to help ensure the safety of the younger, less experienced family member. Fair? I don’t dislike you, so I won’t read Patriarchy crap into any of that.
I’ve had a different approach which includes letting the kids fail if that’s what they’re determined to do. Life is about learning, I believe, and experience is the best teacher. In the example of our 18 year old felon, in my head I would be screaming NO! as well. But I would have my daughter explain to me what she sees in this fellow, what she thinks he can offer her, and how she sees the relationship heading. That sort of stuff. My position gets made clear, “I don’t like the idea” but eventually the choice is hers. Granted, that’s how I raised her and all of her sibs, and she’s used to that line of questioning. She does it for herself now when she’s got Decisions to make. I am NOT saying “Yes dear, everything that pops into your pretty little head is splendid.” But I do set them up to understand potential consequences and to make their own informed choices.
And if she says “I don’t know, he just seems super cool. And he has a van! And his own apartment!”
You’d let your 14 year old daughter date a guy like that? I’m reluctant to believe that.
I know this wasn’t directed at me, but in my opinion there are times when you have to let children make their own mistakes, they learn from them and move on. However there are some mistakes that have consequences that last many years, or even for the rest of that person’s life, the kind of mistakes where you can’t just dust yourself off and walk away from with a lesson learned.
Depending on the age of the child, you ultimately only have so much control, but I do think it’s ok to be authoritarian sometimes with a child if you are steering them away from not a simple mistake they will learn from, but a dumpster fire with possible long-term ramifications that might last years or the rest of their life and very well may ruin their life.
How would you stop her, short of chaining her to the bed?
She’s 14. Therefore, she doesn’t drive. Not too sure chaining is necessary.
Does she go to school? Ever leave the house?
Several of my classmates were in a hurry to “get men”. They got men all right, if you consider that someone who’s a human male capable of impregnating a human female is a “man”. The sex didn’t take place with parental approval, but no amount of parental disapproval deterred it.
Absolute truth there. Same with asking permission (or blessing) from bride’s father in marriage and with fathers literally giving away daughters in marriage. Which, of course, not everyone does.
The idea that fathers have more ownership over their daughters and over who their daughters date or have sex with that they do over their sons and who their sons date and have sex with is extremely sexist and is disgusting from my point of view.
And I keep seeing “dads know teenage boys are horny and that’s why they act that way about daughters dating” - which completely disregards the girl’s own agency in choosing who she has sex with or the possibility of her being horny. I bet most such dads don’t give nearly so much worry to their son dating a horny girl who wants to have sex. Teen daughter having consensual sex with peer - “oh hell no”. Teen son having consensual sex with peer - “atta boy.”
just what i was going to ask.
He has a van. Does she leave the house? Get out of your sight where the boyfriend can pick her up?
I don’t understand this reasoning. Your children don’t have any rules at all? You don’t forbid them from doing anything, since they can always do it when you are not around?
That just seems strange to me.
I don’t see it this way as much as the (somewhat historic, but not entirely) view that men tend to be more physically and emotionally dominant in a relationship. Couple this with the fact that many fathers see it is their job to protect their family.
If a man has a son, then he has less to worry about from a dating relationship. The girlfriend is less likely to rape him, beat him up, treat him badly, etc. The father assumes the boy can “be a man” and handle the relationship as needed.
However, if he has a daughter, he sees the suitor as someone who can easily become more physically and emotionally dominant over his daughter. He is going to pour much more scrutiny on the daughter’s boyfriend/husband.
Of course, we are only talking about traditional hetero relationships here.
Yes, a completely bizarre sentiment. “This felon is going to get in my 14yo’s pants anyway, so why should I even bother to act like a parent?”
When my kids were little I told them what to do. When they turned 13 I started backing off. I didn’t say, “wear your suit to this event”, I said “people dress up for this, and your suit would be appropriate.”
Would I say, “don’t date this adult felon”? I’m not sure. Nothing like that ever came up. I would surely have tried to end the relationship, but probably not by forbidding it.
My then-teenage son was awfully cuddly with a woman who was unambiguously too old for my comfort. But:
- I decided I trusted her not to get pregnant, and not to infect him with anything awful. (I knew her)
- They both told mutual friends that they weren’t a couple. That was obviously not true, but I took it to mean they weren’t actually having sex. (She is poly, so she had several boyfriends and some girlfriends at the time.)
- I had told the kids that if they loved someone, they should be careful not to have sex with that person while they were underage, because if anyone later wanted to cause problems, that was a felony in our state.
So I decided not to say anything. They eventually broke up. I don’t believe any harm was done.
No, children under my care* have always had rules, but the idea that a girl who’s stupid will stop being so because her father is a controlling jerk is…
yeah. It’s at least as stupid as the girl.
- IANALegalParent but I parented two brothers and frequently herded or co-herded up to 25 younger children. Apparently I also had an absurd amount of influence among oodles of the Bros’ classmates, being one of those rare gronwups whose default mode when meeting someone is to assume ownership of a functioning brain.
There are sexist or paternalistic or misogynistic assumptions underlying pretty much every sentence of this post.
What is it about the assumption that girls are less likely to rape boys than vice versa that makes it paternalistic, misogynistic, or sexist?
Regards,
Shodan