Excellent points, save for Lewis. 
Are you describing France, or the United States?
I don’t recall mentioning Wisconsin. My post was discussing Montana.
I refered to Harmoniuosdiscord’s post.
Indeed, French has never been in danger of disappearing completely in Quebec, because it has been a mostly francophone society since the 17th century at least. In Western Canada, the French language mostly disappeared due to the influx of English-speaking immigrants (and laws unfavourable to francophones).
This said, while it is certain that French will not disappear from Quebec, even today we still hear reports of francophones who cannot work in their language inside Quebec, so if we consider that ensuring that Quebec remains a French-speaking society is a valuable goal, then surely our language laws have some value. And actually, as I said before, I don’t believe it’s accurate to say that fear of being overwhelmed by English is the only motivation behind these laws. Facilitating the integration of immigrants into the majority culture is also a major goal. Many immigrants to Quebec today still don’t consider it important to learn French, since they can get by with English only. It’s their choice, of course, but it does exclude them from the majority. And since immigration is becoming more important than before to ensure that the population of Quebec doesn’t decline, having new immigrants not integrate well into our society could lead to its fragmentation.
In short, I think saying that our language laws are motivated mostly be an irrational fear that without them, French will be completely supplanted by English isn’t accurate. Some people believe this, true, but you can find much stronger arguments in favour of these laws. But following these arguments, banning all exterior commercial signage that has on it any other language than French seems excessive and useless, which is why I was wondering why it seemed like a good idea in the first place.
We’ve talked about this before, RickJay, and I’m sure I remember you saying that many things could be improved about Canada. And I would agree with this, only I think it needs more than taking care of the “day-to-day stuff”. I don’t think Canada works phenomenally well right now; I know it causes a lot of frustration for many people. You may think that all the complains you hear are just our political classes complaining as they always do; the provincial governments trying to swindle money from Ottawa by screaming louder than everyone else, but that they don’t represent the “average Canadian”, who’s proud of his/her country and knows it’s the best in the world, but I would disagree with you. As a Quebecer, I consider that many of the suggestions proposed by the governments of my province, of all stripes, to improve its existance, inside or outside Canada, have been valid, not just cries of attention from politicians. And I know I’m not the only one to feel like this, and people from other provinces feel the same.
(bolding mine) I hadn’t heard about such laws. What are they? Parts of Canada really have anti-French-language laws?
Going back to Quebec, the reason I dislike the place is the same reason I dislike every province east of Manitoba - Eastern Canada only thinks of itself. At least Alberta tries to look at Saskatchewan and Mantoba as its younger, misguided twin siblings.
And then there’s BC, which just follows the beat of its own drum.
They aren’t valid anymore, but at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, many English-language provinces had laws forbidding instruction in French. I’ll find more information and I’ll post it later today.
Here are links to the Wikipedia article about a few post-Confederation provincial laws that were intended at assimilating francophone Canadians by eliminating education in their language.
[ul]
[li]Regulation 17 in Ontario (beginning of the 20th century)[/li][li]the dispute over Manitoba’s schools (end of the 19th/beginning of the 20th century)[/li][/ul]
Regulation 17 is what I mostly had in mind in my previous post; I also remember hearing about the Manitoba schools question before. Maybe there has been similar laws in other provinces, but I can’t say I’ve heard about them.
Eh, the drumbeat is marching my anglo ass to Montreal as soon as I can manage it.
I am sick unto death of Western Canada. (As much as I love it.)
I don’t hate the French, and I never have hated them. I might be a bit miffed at them now and then, but then that’s about it.
I’d very much like to learn how to speak French, (I guess since I learned to speak Arabic I could meet the challenges of learning to speak French.)
French people have always been nice to me, so I guess you can chalk me up as a Francophile!
The mob might pay lip service to the idea of thanking and admiring a wise man who corrects a treasured public misconception, but in truth the mob is much more likely to lynch him as a smart arse, trample on his memory and go back to their misconception.
:eek: The U.S. is usually considered the backward monolingual country, but even here it’s required for students to take at least a year of another language. I had no idea that part of Canada forbid teaching French. Wow.
Forbade. They don’t anymore.
And just as before, I’m curious as to what reasonable standard would say it doesn’t. Peaceful, wealthy, stable, kind of fun. What else could you ask for?
I’d be happy to see lots of changes, but change should be gradual, not sudden, when you’re in a peaceful, wealthy country. Risk versus reward, and all that.
Sure, some people might think Canada needs to be drastically, quickly altered. You get stupid, bigoted comments like kushiel with the usual “Them Eastern/Westerners/Quebecers don’t care about other Canadians” and the usual malarkey, none of which is ever supported by objective evidence or common sense. It’s inevitable that half the population with have below average intelligence. That can’t be changed, I’m afraid.
Fact is, Canadians who say they don’t like Quebecers because of (insert stereotypical comment about the French) are morons. Absolute, total, mouth-breathing imbeciles. People who say “I don’t like Eastern Canadians” or “I don’t like Albertans” or “I don’t like Maritimers” are idiots. Their brains are defective. They’re dumb, slow, dull-witted, not smart. Canada’s problem, fundamentally, is that our share of idiots, fools and jackasses seem to be largely focused, at least in political terms, on regional rivalries.
You can expand this in any direction you want; Canadians who bitch and whine about Americans are, in my experience, usually ignoramuses who’ve never actually been to the States except maybe a trip to Disneyland. I am sure you could apply the same rationale to any number of European rivalries, or the rivalry between Thailand and Myanmar, or Australia and New Zealand, or anyone else.
I admit I’m still shocked when people who are presumably smart enough to use a computer say they don’t like the French because of a bunch of stereotypes they got off sitcoms, but I guess I shouldn’t be shocked, really, because I’m from Canada, the home of the most irrational and idiotic stereotype classifications in the entire world.
I’m pleased to hear that. I think every country has some stupid and intolerant laws in its history somewhere. The sign of intelligent and progressive people is the ability to get rid of those laws.
Wait, what are you talking about? Practically nothing is “required” across the United States in regard to school curriculum. Those decisions are made locally, and certainly plenty of schools don’t require foreign language at all.
Case Closed! 
hh
Understood and agreed. I phrased my response poorly. There’s no Federally-mandated program here for teaching a second language, but many school districts (and at least some states) require at least one year of 2nd language. I don’t know how it is today, but a lot of colleges either required that you had studied another language in high school, or gave preference in admissions to students who had. This was a big point made by the counselors when I was in high school.
My point was only that the U.S. is often looked down upon by the rest of the world because so few of our native-born citizens are fluent in multiple languages, yet there’s at least some effort to teach other languages in the schools. By contrast, Canada is widely thought of as a bilingual country, yet at one point teaching of French in parts of the country was actually forbidden. Interesting.
You seriously don’t think Ontario sucks up to Quebec for support (everyone was scrambling for the Bloc’s support when the Conservatives got a minority government)? How much time have you spent in SK or MB during a national election? We’re lucky to have a head of a campaigning party come around at all. Oh, and how’s that gun registry going in Ontario?
Politics doesn’t pander to the Prairies (except Alberta, because the entire Eastern part of Canada stared open-jawed at finding out they had enough of a surplus to give everyone $400), it panders to Ontario and Quebec.
Listen, not everyone is bigoted, I realize that. But not admitting to a political imbalance? That’s either being ignorant or in denial. I’m not saying we need an overhaul of the entire system, but thinking there isn’t regional strife is naive. It’s like saying there isn’t any strife between Republican Texas and Democratic Massachusetts.
Oh, and I like you inferring that I’m stupid and of below average intelligence.