Why does everyone hate the French?

[RickJay]

@kushiel

You seriously don’t think Ontario sucks up to Quebec for support (everyone was scrambling for the Bloc’s support when the Conservatives got a minority government)?

No. Who is everyone? Is the Conservative party based solely in Ontario?

And, er, you’re changing your story. In your post you said you didn’t like Easterners because they though only of themselves. Now it’s about “sucking up to Quebec”? Which is it?

How much time have you spent in SK or MB during a national election? We’re lucky to have a head of a campaigning party come around at all. Oh, and how’s that gun registry going in Ontario?

I don’t understand, really, how this establishes that Canadians who live east of Manitoba “only think of themselves.” I have no personal interest in the gun registry beyond wishing they hadn’t wasted so much money on it. What’s your point?

Listen, not everyone is bigoted, I realize that. But not admitting to a political imbalance? That’s either being ignorant or in denial. I’m not saying we need an overhaul of the entire system, but thinking there isn’t regional strife is naive.

Honestly, what the hell are you talking about? I’M THE GUY SAYING THERE’S REGIONAL STRIFE. You’re the one who doesn’t like people based on where they live, and who looks down your nose at Manitoba and Saskatchewan. I’m the guy saying that’s not a good thing.

[Hypnagogic_Jerk]

RickJay, I had a quite long reply to you written out, and then my :mad: Windows XP rebooted on me as it does so quite often. I don’t know why people say it’s the most stable version of Windows yet, cause I just don’t see it. :rolleyes: Let’s try again.

RickJay, what people see as the problem in today’s Canada isn’t really related to the regional strife you’ve talked about, although you’re right that it does exist, that it causes us grief, and that we’d be better if we could just get along. The problem is something else. See kushiel, who claims that the powers-that-be in Canada just don’t take the smaller prairie provinces, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, in consideration when making decisions, and are instead pandering to Ontario and Quebec. Is he right? I don’t know, but I do know that this belief is one that is prevalent in Western Canada. And it must be based on something real. (How they get from this to “Eastern Canada only thinks of itself”, I don’t know either, but there you go.)

As a francophone Quebecer, I also feel this estrangement from the decision-making centre of Canada, as paradoxal as it might seem to the Western Canadian. I just don’t trust the federal government to defend the interests of Quebec; I trust my own provincial government a lot more, even when I believe that it is awfully out of touch with the population, as is the case right now. Of course, this has to do with the fact that I consider Quebec and English Canada to be two different nations, something I think you will disagree with. The federal government may do its best, it will find it close to impossible to juggle the needs of two different nations, when these needs even sometimes contradict each other.

I won’t even talk about the First Nations, except to say that if there are people who may legitimately talk about a democratic deficit, it must be them, especially those who live in far away reserves that we hear about only when some journalist notices the third-worldly conditions they live in. And that we promptly forget about.

None of this, as you see, has anything to do with regional strife (although it may lead to resentment in some people, see for example kushiel). But I don’t personally feel animosity towards other parts of Canada. I may view Albertans stereotypically as loud-mouthed cowboys who think they have a God-given right and duty to pollute, but I know that it’s only a joke. Newfie jokes are very popular in Canada, English and French alike (might be one of our only shared cultural staples), but they don’t mean any disrespect to Newfoundlanders (-and-Labradorians). The problem has to do with Canadians’ feeling of estrangement with the institutions that make Canada a democracy.

This is what I meant when I said that I don’t know what should be done for Canada. But what I know is that “nothing” won’t cut it.

[kushiel]

@RickJay

Honestly, what the hell are you talking about? I’M THE GUY SAYING THERE’S REGIONAL STRIFE. You’re the one who doesn’t like people based on where they live, and who looks down your nose at Manitoba and Saskatchewan. I’m the guy saying that’s not a good thing.

I live in Saskatchewan. I’m saying that other people turn their noses down at us and Manitoba.

Also, my point with the Quebec pandering thing was that the Conservatives were trying to get the Bloc on their side to better their minority government, but the Liberals wanted the Bloc and the NDP to outnumber the Conservatives. This all takes place in the East - power likes power.

Yeah, I’m a little resentful. I don’t think anyone is out to get us, but I do think we simply get less respect because we’re traditionally known as have-not provinces. I’m sure Nunavut feels a little ignored too.

[iluvurmom]

@Case Sensitive

One point I think that hasn’t been addressed is that the French, of all the major European nations, weren’t a major part of any of the waves of immigration to the US, particularly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries: as far as I’m aware the only real French influence in the US was relatively early on in Louisiana, and that from displaced Canadians.

Countries like Italy, Germany, Ireland and Poland recently established and maintained what might be termed a popular consular presence, and the English and {to a lesser extent, via Mexico and an early North American presence} Spanish influences have been pervasive from the outset.

The French, on the other hand, have mostly been “foreign”, and thus an easy object of distrust and demonisation, particularly post-WWII when American interests and influence really began to expand into Europe and Asia, and often ran foul of French ambitions and aspirations to still be considered as a global player.

I have to say that i agree with your post and reasoning. French Influence in Louisiana is such a big part of their culture, that and spanish. If you go to New Orleans you see French Influence everywhere. Their are still people in south louisiana that speak a french dialect. Very interesting to hear.

[Dr_Paprika]

@severus

As a francophone Quebecer, I also feel this estrangement from the decision-making centre of Canada, as paradoxal as it might seem to the Western Canadian. I just don’t trust the federal government to defend the interests of Quebec; I trust my own provincial government a lot more, even when I believe that it is awfully out of touch with the population, as is the case right now. Of course, this has to do with the fact that I consider Quebec and English Canada to be two different nations, something I think you will disagree with. The federal government may do its best, it will find it close to impossible to juggle the needs of two different nations, when these needs even sometimes contradict each other.

I won’t even talk about the First Nations, except to say that if there are people who may legitimately talk about a democratic deficit, it must be them, especially those who live in far away reserves that we hear about only when some journalist notices the third-worldly conditions they live in. And that we promptly forget about.

There are not many countries where provinces have powers at levels similar to the country at large – Switzerland, maybe the States before the Constitution was consistently interpreted to promote national interests above State law. Frankly, as an Ontarian who has lived in Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, I do not trust the federal government to defend the interests of Ontario. This difficulty is not related to English or French, Quebec “nationhood” or regional stereotypes.

When Premier McGuinty initially said he was upset that Ontario paid $23 billion to other provinces in redistribution payments while our infrastructure crumbles (and is worse than most other provinces), the federal Liberals openly mocked him. Derisive comments were heard from every part of the country. How was the federal government protecting the interests of Ontario, exactly? I work in the health care field and have tremendous experience with how vast these deficencies are. In Canada, wisdom is recieved, not earned. Federal governments seem to have gone out of their way to deprive big cities from making their own decisions – is Toronto the “decision making centre of Canada”?

Having spent some time working on First Nation reserves, and having considerable sympathy for their situation, I believe it is true (but not politically correct) to say that their troubles include having leadership that receives considerable funding and government support, but does not distribute these moneys in a way that everyone benefits. Corruption is not limited to provincial and federal governments. Of course, this only deepens the democratic deficit without helping those in most need.

[RickJay]

@kushiel

I live in Saskatchewan. I’m saying that other people turn their noses down at us and Manitoba.

Who? Alberta, you say? That’s not in eastern Canada.

Also, my point with the Quebec pandering thing was that the Conservatives were trying to get the Bloc on their side to better their minority government, but the Liberals wanted the Bloc and the NDP to outnumber the Conservatives. This all takes place in the East - power likes power.

Please explain how this proves Eastern Canadians “only think about themselves.” You’ve provided absolutely nothing to defend this rather bigoted claim.

Stephen Harper, who as you might recall is the Prime Minister of Canada, makes his home in Calgary. If you want to blame someone for pandering to the Bloc, I would suggest you start with him.