A few years ago a Danish friend of mine asked me why American’s hate the French so much. I gave an answer about sterotypes, the long-standing (British heritage influenced) dislike, and that it was done in a “just kidding” vein. This really disturbed her because she felt the French were a fairly typical modern European nation, and that as both tourists and hosts they behaved similarly to if not better than lots of other European people. This got me thinking and since then I have noticed a lot more French bashing in the media, and I don’t hear slams against other Euro-nationalities very often at all. Why? I remember when Irish, Polish, Italian, etc. bashing was an everyday occurance. She seemed to expect more of a anti-Eastern Europe thing, and that just isn’t here.
I have a feeling that it is because French-Americans are less represented than other Euro-Americans except in specific locals, such as around New Orleans, and therefore less likely to complain, but I really don’t know.
Well, I work with quite a few French people(Eurocopter), and they’re pretty decent folk for the most part. The thing that takes some getting used to is that apparently the interpersonal relationship dynamics are apparently very different.
The thing I hear is that lots of French people think Americans are stupid, or at least really dorky & goofy because we smile a lot & are very talkative compared to them.
Probably the same story about us thinking they’re particularly rude or something. From what I see, they’re just sort of abrupt & close-mouthed relative to us.
I see the same thing in a lesser degree when I run into people from New England(I’m from Texas). They tend to think a lot of Southerners are too talkative as well.
My limited interaction with the ‘French’, in France, Martinique, parts of Canada, and soon hopefully Tahiti (when they are on vacation) is this:
They really are NOT rude, unless you don’t make an effort to speak their language, which, sadly, most Americans do not. Other cultures seem to be more accepting of non-fluent Americans in their societies but for some reason the French are not. Of course, we as Americans get pissed off at people who don’t speak our language either and INSIST they learn it, so they are really just giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Of course we are the US who has to act as the defender of the free world every time some asshole with a funny uniform decides they need to take over another country. So we feel like we’ve EARNED this right. Everyone always points to the French rolling over when the Nazis came through town in WWII as proof they have not earned this right (forgetting of course that this event happened almost 60 years ago). Hence they suck…we rule…and they should just accept that we don’t have to speak their language. Plus add in any wierd political/ cultural stuff for extra fodder such as snooty/ expensive French fashion and perfumes, controversial drugs (don’t forget the ‘abortion pill’ RU-486), and Napolean for good measure (he was French and short so he MUST have been an asshole!) People often find it hypocritical of them as well to ‘put down’ America while at the same time enjoying our movies, blue jeans, music, software, etc.
Personally, I say give the French a break. Besides, if you leave out the fact that so many of them smoke, French women are HOT!!!
First off, I don’t want to start another anti-French rant. The thread in the pit is what reminded me of this question in the first place. Let’s keep this civil, and avoid answering the “Why is there this sterotype?” question with “Because it’s part true.” I don’t want this thread moved to the pit. That place scares me. People are overly hostile there. This question is about the media. Lots of sterotypes could be said to hold some truth, but why does this one persist in the media?
Do most other groups have anti-defamation agencies? Are other groups more vocal or responsive when offended? Have the French mostly avoided imigrating to the U.S., and therefore have less of a voice here than other Euros? I am looking for a reasoned answer, or at least some interesting thoughts on the subject.
Please don’t spit venom and make them take this to the pit.
The French dislike foreigners in general and Americans in particular even more than Americans dislike the French. Just read the news about them destroying McDonalds. Eurodisney and other American businesses. Any foreigner who has been to France knows how condescending they are if you cannot speak perfect French.
The French think they are so great they have been picking fights with the Germans for over 200 years now and every time they get their derrieres whooped and then someone else (usually the Brits and the Americans) have to get them out of the mess.
I understand now at the French Army Academie mostly what they teach is to say “I surrender!” in German. It saves a lot of trouble.
It may go deeper than people think. I recall watching a show about the history of the U.S. Navy. In this show, they talked about how after the British were pushed out of the U.S. after Yorktown, the French and British were still at war. Apparently the French expected the newly formed and still unstable nation to continue fighting the British, which it didn’t. Therefor, the French basically declared open season on U.S. ships.
Also, I beleive that the United States planned to occupy France during WWII instead of liberating it. Because some U.S. general wanted to be freindly, he let the French forces liberate Paris which in turn freed France.
I knew a couple of Frenchmen in high school. One was an exchange student and the other was in the U.S. as some sort of teaching assistant. They were both pretty nice guys and didn’t seem too rude to me.
The only problem I have with France is that they’ll let a rapist run loose in their country and not let the U.S. extradite him because they feel our justice system is barbaric. (This from the nation that gave the world the guiltine (sp?).)
I feel that the reason that the French and Americans have animosity towards each other is because they both want to be the cultural center of the world.
I live in Quebec, and I think many Americans would be quite surprised by some of our rather discriminatory laws. How many of you were aware that businesses are prohibited from displaying any English (or Hebrew, Chinese etc) on signs, advertisments, business cards unless it is 50% smaller than the French? Likewise, hospitals are prohibited from signs in English, even in predominantly English cities. There are actually inpsctors who go around with rulers measuring the letters. We call them (what else) ‘tongue troopers’ . . . for all this assissnine behaviour (largely the work of our separatist government), do I hate the French? Absolutely not. Far from it. I (like most anglos) understand the impulse to protect French in a province of 6 million people, alone on a continent of 300 million. It’s the way it’s handled that infuriates most of us. Frankly, I think that 6 million french-speaking people makes North America an infinitely more interesting place . . . mais, c’aide que je suis bilangue.
I’ve spent a little more time over there now the tunnels open and it’s changed my previously more steryotypical view of them. I quite like them. It’s worth noting that the attitude you see isn’t only because you’re American, they’re pretty much like that to French people as well. It’s just their way.
Having said that, they do have a problem because their distinct culture is, as they see it, constantly under pressure from all pervasive Anglo-Saxon influence’s. Many French people think they need to protect their culture more in order for it to prosper and perhaps they’re right. The absurdity of a McDonald’s in a country with food like that can be striking, just as an example.
It’s also important to me because I like the difference and diversity.
I think people tend to sell the French a little short when it comes to the WW1 and WW2. Yes, they just wern’t organised and ready for the Germans in 1939 and they were pretty disorganised until that war was over but between 1914 and 1918 they suffered 1.3 million troop casualties out of a population of around 35 million.
If you crunch the numbers and compare it with the US population today it comes out at (very roughly) over 10 million dead or injured troops. That is a truly unimaginable number that you’d think just couldn’t happen. They really did do they’re bit, especially between 1914-17, but like the Brits, by then, were running out of machine gun fodder.
I’ve always seen the issue as a long lasting, low-level antipathy rooted in the favors we owe one another. They won independence for our country; we gave theirs back to them. That’s some pretty deep indebtedness for any proud nation to bear.
Most Americans I know who enjoy taking the occasional snipe (as I do) at the French do not have a complete disrespect for them. Except of course my housemate, who went so far as to create and circulate a “Kill the French” map for DOOM II. He was visibly dismayed when I showed him how many “I hate the French” websites are out there. He apparently believed he thought of it first.
But enough opinion. Let’s get on to some ignorant American-generated statistics of minimal value!
Number of hits for “hate the french” on Google: 575
Number of hits for “americain haine” on Google: 275
Number of hits for “Ich hasse Französisch” on Google: 883
So, by this carefully conducted survey, I believe I have demonstrated the fact, if true, that more Germans hate French people than French and Americans hate each other!
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go yank on my horses’ necks. I’m trying to turn them into giraffes.
Uh, those numbers might be artificially low if you don’t include such phrases as “je déteste les américains”. Note too that “haine” is a noun, so you should try it as a verb: “j’haïs les américains.”
I’ve been to France several times, both to Paris and in the country to smaller cities (Le Havre, Honfleur).
The Parisian French were rude every time I was there - I could almost smell the contempt emanating from them when they dicovered I was an American.
The French in Le Havre and Honfleur were friendly when I was there - they did everything possible to be polite, nice, and friendly the whole 2 weeks I was there.
And from this small sample size, I submit that there is a big difference between Parisians and the rest of France.
In WWII at least the French were our allies. If the driving force was WWII rememberance you would think Germans and Italians would be mocked in a much worse way then the French, and I really don’t think they are. Interesting stuff about the intended occupation though. That would piss anyone off, I would think.
LC - I think you might have hit on it with the “Culture under Siege” bit, and that sort of feeds into what Mealypotatoes was saying about the language laws in Quebec. I had heard about those laws, and the airport language laws - which were ridiculous - and I saw a news report which featured a Rap music video on preserving French culture in Quebec, which was particularly funny because I don’t think of Rap music as being a big part of French culture.
If that is it I don’t see any likely resolution, other than trying to adopt French culture, which would undoubtedly cause much more rapid and intense change. Kinda sad.
Many Parisians are sick and tired of all the damn tourists, for many good reasons. They get so jaded, from dealing with “ugly Americans”, not to mention ugly Germans, Japanese, Tuvans, et. al. (well, maybe not Tuvans) that they start to lump all tourists together as jerks. Attempts at speaking French are mocked; sometimes they act like they can’t understand you at all. A friend of mine was told by a Parisian that she spoke French, “like a Canadian.” She assumed it was a compliment.
Outside of Paris, most French are polite and kind, especially to those who attempt to speak in French, who respect French culture, who don’t demand the “Frogs” tell them in English how to get to the nearest Burger King. They rarely have to deal with red-faced ingrates yammering about how they personally “saved your Vichy butt from Jerry.”
Don’t get me wrong; many Parisians are polite, too. There are many more polite than rude Parisians. The thing is that the ones who have to deal most often with tourists are the ones most likely to be rude. That many tourists seem to think Paris is the only place in France to visit, again skew encounters with French to interactions with the more rude folks.
Some random observations from my recent trip to Europe, which may or may not have anything to do with the topic at hand:
People in Roscoff, Rennes, and St. Malo were considerably more polite than in Paris – which is not to say that most of the Parisians were outright rude, just kind of no-nonsense. I’d be no-nonsense too if I had to deal with thousands of tourists every day.
When I spoke to people in my utterly hopeless French, they either answered in English, or listened patiently to my stammerings until I managed to communicate what I wanted. I NEVER met anybody who was rude to me because I didn’t speak the language well.
On the other hand, in two months of solo travel, Paris was the only place where I had to deal with major harrassment (nothing physical, thank heaven, but lots of whistling and catcalling). I’m pretty sure this was because I was American; in fact when I went out with a couple of British girls from the hostel, guys would throw themselves at us and then totally lose interest when they said they were anglais. (I’m not sure whether this says more about what the French think of Americans, or what they think of Brits.)
Americans act like total boors in Paris. They talk much too loudly, they walk up to total strangers and speak English, and they stand around the Musee D’Orsay taking flash photographs of the paintings, even though there are signs everywhere saying it’s forbidden. By my fourth day in Paris, I just wanted to disown my compatriots forever, maybe pretend I was from Ireland or something. Then I went to Spain. Guess what? Americans act like nice, reasonable folks in Spain. Most of us are there because we speak the language and care about the culture. British people, on the other hand, go to Spain for the sole purpose of buying massive quantities of cigarettes and wine-in-a-box, don’t make the slightest effort to speak Spanish, and are horribly rude to the supermarket clerks. Does this mean Brits are boors? Of course not. If you go to England, you’ll find that they are mostly very nice people, and it’s the Australians who are boors. I’ve never been to Australia, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that it was full of, say, Ugandans behaving badly.
In sum: People from every nation have another nation where they act like total dipshits. Ours happens to be France. If the French are occasionally rude in retaliation, I can hardly blame them.
