I remain baffled by the high residual level of anti-French sentiments among the US people in the aftermath of military operation in Iraq. The French that are criticized and ridiculed so often in US nowadays are the same French as they were only one year ago, with all the vices and merits they posses, but there was very little criticism of them before. Now French are scrutinized in great detail and criticized constantly. I understand that French determined opposition to US plans in relation to intervention in Iraq provided immediate reason for this. However, the original problem was resolved basically to US satisfaction, but anti-French feelings in US don’t seem to go away. Two questions:
Is the present general negative mood just another example of regular eruption of anti-French feelings in US, which can be observed through history beginning with “XYZ affair”, or is it a new phenomenon that haven’t been seen before?
How long the present anti-French disposition in US might last and will it disappear without a trace in the future or the perception of France by US people will radically change forever?
If you notice…most of the humor making fun of the French is the same stuff that was going on before the whole Iraq thing. Most Americans didn’t like the French before Iraq, it’s just a little more blatant now.
I think it will last for years and I think the perception of France has changed forever.
FWIW, I’m an American. I don’t hate “the French” at all, but on the flip side I certainly don’t consider the French government our friend. (I realize “the French” have pretty much no control over what their leaders do, same as over here.)
We Americans are spoiled little stupid folk. We need to vent; just happened that France was in the sights at the time, and they stood in the way of what we wanted.
What is really funny about the anti French sentiment caused by the Iraq jumble is that it was Germany that said they would veto any use of force on Iraq and not France.
As for the French people, I only knew the foreign exchange students from HS. They were pricks, but hell, we were all pricks.
How long will it last, well, once a stupid bigot, always a stupid bigot.
The French gov’t seems to have its own agenda, which jives with the US’s agenda less frequently than most other European gov’ts. I would expect my gov’t to be somewhat wary about depending on the French in the future. We’re still allies and will cooperate on most issues, as it is in both our interests to do so. But depend on them for anything? Non!
I agree with Neurotik. The French have long been the butt of jokes in the US, mostly revolving around their (seemingly) grossly overinflated view of their own global significance. Their “ministry of language purity” or whatever it’s called, different views on bathing and use of deoderant, etc.
Having said that, I see no reason to boycott French products and would not change travel plans to go that country if I so wished. I still enjoy French wines (although CA wines are better:)) and good French bread and cheeses. And let’s not forget French women! Got no problem with them.
I guess it’s just that hating the French seems so right! Especially since the French themselves notoriously despise foreigners in general and Americans in particular.
But let’s not forget that, in principle, the U.S. and France have been on friendly terms ever since the Marquis de la Fayette teamed up with George Washington! We even sided with Napoleon in the Napoleonic wars (War of 1812, to us), although that was really less a matter of being pro-French than being anti-British.
Not exactly. The German government stated that they wouldn’t participate in the war, no matter what. But they couldn’t “veto” anything since they don’t have have a right of veto at the UN.
The French government stated that it would participate in the war, as a last recourse, if Irak failed to comply to the the UN inspections. But it also stated that it would veto the last resolution the US tried to pass before the war given its content (basically : we’re going to war within one week except if Irak provide proofs that there was no way it could provide in so short a time while France was asking for a two months delay), and opposed a previous resolution which would have allowed waging war on irak if this country failed to meet its obligations, but didn’t mention that it would be up to the UN to decide whether it had fulfilled its obligation or not, which would have basically allowed the US to state unilaterally “we think they didn’t fulfilled them, so we’re going to wage war”.
Don’t know why Americans hate the French, but it has been going on for a long time. WWII keeps popping up, many Americans holds some major misconceptions about what happened back then.
Regarding the recent clashes, the irony, 20 years ago it would have been Russia/Soviet who was the big bad thing.
Irks me to see how the US turned on the French, weeks after the French helped the US oust the Taliban.
The French also helped the US in GW1 but when it didnt buy crap from Bush Jr. the Neocons screamed hell and voided Iraqi oil deals with French oilcompanies.
In my view the French really looked like good friends trying to stop the US from making asses of themselves and got stabbed in the back for it. 200 US casualties, 0 WMDs and a changed world opinion later, I still havent read anything in the form of an apology.
Why hate the French? I guess it has something to do with the French looking down on Americans and Americans not liking it.
By the same token, I’m not sure why the French hate us. I know what the OP said, but let’s not paint this as a one-way street.
FWIW, the two times I’ve been to France, the people there have been nice as can be. I went over there all prepared for the mean rude French, and found out they were nothing like the stereotype.
[quote]
But certainly part of it [French resistance to actions in Kosovo] also represented something new in the post-Cold War order: an undertow of opposition from former allies–the French, of course, in the lead–to American moves, now that America stood alone as a superpower, a most natural resentment of a rich and powerful nation on the part of those who felt America did not take their wishes seriously enough or consult with them enough
[quote]
-David Halberstam War in a Time of Peace
That’s how Halberstam believes anti-American sentiment in France begins nowadays. Americans see this and think of it not as a natural feeling of concern and envy, but as an example of the French being pricks. The sterotype of the French prick goes back to American tourists being treated rudely in France mostly because of not speaking the language. Instead of looking at it from the French person’s eyes (a foreigner in my land expects me to know his language) they write the entire nation off as a bunch of jerks and return home with stories of stuck-up French people.
There is also the matter of Charles De Gaulle leading France to nukes (the first non-superpower to get them) and the socialist government. America frowned on both of these.
I hate the French because I had to write a bunch of papers on the country for an intro history course and the names are hard to spell for a non-speaker of France. Also, France checked England, my favorite European country, many times. So my hatred as really like that of a sports fan.
Damn, the Normans are invading again. When is England going to get some good archers?
Who could have imagined, 50 years ago, that at the turn of the millennium, the U.S. and Britain would be embarking on a controversial war, and the French, the Germans and the Russians would be standing shoulder-to-shoulder for peace?!
I don’t hate them, but stunts like this sure do seem petty.
It’s going to make it all the more easy to enjoy it when a certain pro cyclist from Texas puts another slam dunk on their national tour for a fifth time in a row this month. That’s got to piss them off. I can’t wait.
There was a time when France was one of the most important countries in the world. Napoleon came close to making himself the Emperor of Europe. Even after the Napoleonic era, France acquired a colonial empire second only to Britain’s. France was considered the cultural center of Europe and by extension the world through the 19th and much of the 20th century, with French cooking, art, and literature being at the forefront.The French made numerous significant contributions to science, technology and engineering. French was the language of international diplomacy, and even as late as the 1960s was the preferred language of the chic avant-garde.
Unfortunately, France suffered a steady erosion of it’s relative power in the world, primarily due to the rise of Prussia/Germany. In the Franco-Prussian War, WW1 and WW2, France basicly got humilatingly buggered. This was followed by the swift loss after WW2 of virtually all of France’s colonial empire. Britain too suffered a great loss of relative power in the world, but unlike the British who bemoaned just how far they had fallen, France seemed to be determined to continue behaving as though nothing had changed. In recent years France has resorted to ever more Francocentric policies, such as shoring up the French film industry by flat quotas on Hollywood produced films, and limiting American food companies like McDonalds from competing with French cuisine. This lead one critic to describe France as “The nation with the most undeserved superiority complex in the world”.
The US has been miffed at the French at least as far back as the De Gaul era. (How dare those has-beens be so arrogant; WE’RE the ones who deserve to be arrogant! ) But what brought it to a head during the GW2 controversy was the US perception that France was simply being obstructionist- using it’s position on the Security Council to block action ** just to prove how important their say-so is **. Whether this is a fair assesment or not, it is widely believed.
You know, as a history major and former serviceman, I should know better than to open my mouth, but then again, it’s the French here.
I’m not going to degrade the French as far as their society is concerned. It’s a perfectly lovely society, albiet a bit standoffish, but so too are the citizens of the USA. What really gets me (and perhaps the rest of middle-Americans) fired up are bull-headed stunts and antics of a select few.
I read on the AP (I forget the article) about a group of French students who vandalized a cemetary full of US soldiers who were killed in both the first and second World Wars. The spraypainted slogans were along the lines of “Take your trash away, you’re polluting our soil.” Now, mind you, that’s not an exact quote, but to my knowledge that’s about as fucked up (pardon my language) as any group can get. Again, its only a select few and should not be taken as a slight against the whole of France. But that is pretty fucked up that those children, who have never faced invasion by an outside military, would deface the gravemarkers of those who helped protect and liberate their homeland. The South Koreans, who are right now trying to REMOVE US forces from their country, are at least reverant of those Americans who died protecting the Republic of Korea from the communists.
Welcome to SDMB! Don’t hesitate to speak your opinion.
I am in agreement with you. Just be aware that it is not all of the French who feel that way and not all of the Americans. I have seen more bullying by the U.S. government in the last year than I can remember in my life time.
John Mace:
Do you see that as unreasonable? Should no other countries trust the US because we have our own agenda?
) But what brought it to a head during the GW2 controversy was the US perception that France was simply being obstructionist- using it’s position on the Security Council to block action ** just to prove how important their say-so is **. Whether this is a fair assesment or not, it is widely believed.