I’ve noticed this now for quite some time. Every since this god-forsaken war in Iraq started, almost every comment I’ve read or heard pertaining to the french have all been negative. Why is this? Did I miss something? I don’t know any french personally, but I’ve always thought of them as being a more “romantic” or “suave” type of people with very high standards (especially when it comes to clothing fashion). Someone explain this to me quick, Why does everyone hate them so?
I think of France and America sort of like brothers. Early in the Republic, of course, French adored Americans and vice versa. Thomas Jefferson was there for quite some time. Ben Franklen was almost a god there. France was a huge factor in the American Revolution. And of course, France had a revolution of its own. And it gave us a statue commemorating liberty. Even our flag colors were the same (if not the same order).
And there was a time as recently as the late 50s and early 60s when Americans idolized everything French. French fashion, French academia, French theater, you name it — Americans emulated it and held it up as the standard. Even the French existentialists, Sartre and Camus, had a prodound influence on American thought. One of the things Americans loved about Jacqueline Kennedy was her Frenchish glamor and pinache.
I think the disjunction came about as France moved toward socialism. That was one thing that America just couldn’t stomach. The two brothers grew up and went their separate ways. They still love each other deep down, but the public can see their rift.
Nobody else hates them (except maybe Tony Blair) - they sort of respect them. Arrogant bastards but hey when you have great dress sense, a beautiful country, great looking women, fantastic food, a strong cultural identity, a strong political and independent culture, world class authors, playwrights and singers in their own language who would not be a little arrogant.
The US political class and media are only pissed with them because they did something they saw as certainly in their national interest, and they at least had a case for it being in the international interest.
Like the US does not behave that way as a matter of course?
I think a lot of Americans have had poor experiences with people in France, when visiting on vacation and what not.
Add to that their unwillingness to join in the War on Terrorism™ and their, shall we say, “colorful” military past (see Napoleon Bonaparte & their WW2 surrender to Hitler for starters), and it’s just a formula for fodder.
I think of the relationship between the U.S. and France kind of like I think of the relationship between New York and Texas (or maybe California and Texas)
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both think they are the best
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both think they bring the most important things to the world (France = the “official world language” which French kinda was in most of the Western world until English mostly eclipsed it, the republic - government by the people, culture…; U.S. = self-righteous democracy, English, rock and roll and hip hop)
In other words, we’re rivals both with decent claims on being important and big and stuff. But whereas the U.S. is more like the New York Yankees, France for the past 200 years has been more like the Boston Red Sox - a contender at times, but mostly a long history of defeats and humiliation, but boy do the fans squawk a lot when things get tense…and when push comes to shove, nowhere near the history of utter dominance that the NYY / U.S. has had…
There - have I mixed metaphors enough?
Note that insulting the French goes back well before the Iraq issue. Back in the 90s, the French were the only ethnic group you could insult without fear of any backlash.
Well later today I’m flying to Paris for a vacation, so ** I** don’t hate them.
I’ve spoked to some really stupid people and they seem to think that
A. America saved them from the Nazis
B America did this with no help from any French person. (England was nice enough to let us base our troops in England)
Really, this is what some people I’ve talked to think.
I think Americans would have more respect for France if Napoleon were a more recent phenomenon. As it is, the French don’t have a lot to point to on the field of battle for the past 200 years except for a depressing string of ass-kickings.
Ass kickings? I hope some Frenchman takes you to task for that! World War One anyone? When the French did more, and sufferred more for longer, than anyone to bring about the ultimate defeat of the Central Powers. Until 1917/1918 they pretty much were alone on the Western Front.
And that’s a Brit speaking, from a nation who like to think they won WW1 just like the USA like to think they won WW2.
You have to stay in the game until the fourth quarter to be able to win it - to pick a US-friendly analogy.
As I see France in the Great War occupied the role Britain occupied in the Second World War and should earn some respect for that. It is only after WW1 that their performance falls off (with the exception perhaps of the Franco-Prussian War).
<Eddie Izzard>
…because they’re so… French.
</Eddie Izzard>
I read and hear this a lot, usually from people who have never been there and wouldn’t know a Frenchman if they tripped over one.
I’ve spent a lot of time in Europe (about eight years), and a good portion of time in France, including Paris, Marseilles, Bordeaux, etc. I have never been treated poorly while visiting or working there. Sure, some of the waiters are snotty, but it kind of comes with the job and they’re snotty to everyone, French or not. One of the finest men I’ve met was a French ex-pat living in Mali.
America got its feelings bruised because France declined to get involved in a costly (in lives and currency) and illegal war against a sovereign nation. We need to get over it, already. The French are certainly no more obnoxious than an American in a sports bar.
Maybe it wasn’t an ass-kicking, but France didn’t exactly knock anyone’s socks off in World War I. Even with British help, they barely kept the Germans from taking Paris in the early days of the conflict.
Your opening statement does give me pause to wonder – exactly how many people from France ARE on this board? No screen name leaps to mind, but maybe I just didn’t notice.
Well if we started posting in French they may deign to join us.
The French bashing goes back as far as I can remember, it’s not new. I remeber a comedy sketch from 30 odd years ago about waiters adopting French accents:
“But you aren’t French why do you talk like that?”
“It sounds more authentic when we insult the customers.”
Exactly my point. :rolleyes:
The whole German war plan was to knock the French out of the War with the opening blow. By defeating that plan the French effectively put the Allies in a position from which it was difficult to lose from then on. Even many Germans suspected the game was up when that effort failed.
As for “even with British help”?
The size of BEF committed in Aug 1914? 4 divisions - cut from the promised 6.
Size of French Army at the start of the War on Western Front? 5 ***Armies * ** totally over a million men, not counting attached cavalry division and territorial troops. The BEF were lucky to be in the right place at the right time during the initial Battles and certainly helped but not out of all relation to their size. The French saved themselves by their own efforts
Oh, come on. You can’t be seriously implying that America’s attitude towards France is only a few years old. As previous posters have mentioned, we’ve had the same basic stereotype for decades.
Well, us Brits are supposed to hate the French, it’s a genetic memory from our hundreds of years of being at war with them. 
There’s clairobscur who posts articulate, well-informed contributions to various discussions, in particular in GQ and GD.
I was referring to the recent hate spew coming from not only the everyday American, but from the media, the Republican Party and the Bush White House.
Come on, yourself.
I’ve never met a French person I didn’t like. I don’t always agree with what their gubmint does. I’m sure that’s a fairly common attitude both ways.
:gets out the tinfoil hat:
As a society we bash the French as the result of government propaganda which instructs us to do so. It will lend the upcoming invasion & occupation that much more popular support.
This American’s opinion on actual, face-to-face encounters that turn sour between American people and French people:
Americans consider it virtuous to be casual and friendly. We smile and greet each other in public (more so in small towns, and in the south). When we see someone on the street wearing Bermuda shorts and flip-flops, we don’t disapprove – we are as likely to think ‘lack of pretension’ as we are to think ‘slob’.
And the important thing is: we’re not wrong. It’s how simply how we are.
The French, on the other hand, are more formal in their social interactions. They prefer a subtle greeting between strangers, like a nod of the head. They also consider it rude to appear in public looking bad. They value appearance a lot. (“An Underground Education” by Richard Zacks claims that the two freedoms granted following the French Revolution (of religion, and of dress) were equally valued by the populace).
And it’s important to understand: this is how they are.
When an American flashes a big toothy smile and says “How ya doin?”, a French person’s cold recoil may seem snooty. But it’s more along the lines of how an American would react to a naked person in public. The American thinks, “I was just being friendly” and wonders what the hell the problem is.
So in summary, I think a lot of the hostility starts with simple misunderstandings, and escalates.
Just my two francs – I welcome others’ opinions on this. (I have never been to France, but have known a number of French people, both here and in the UK).