Why does Hillary scare you?

That said, it is kind of a dumb picture to have on one’s website. Surely there must be another picture of her calling for hate-crimes legislation.

I got no real horse in this race. She’s liberal, but New York Senators tend to be (D’Amato being an exception). She’s certainly less corrupt than most other NY politicians, particularly democrats, and she’s doing a good job on constituent services (again, she’s no Fonz, but who is?).

But geez, I hate to see that picture splashed out there for her enemies to make hey from. Maybe one of her supporters on the board could drop her a friendly email making her staff aware of what’s in the pic’s background?

Yup, like Lord Rumsfeld she gives the impression that she’ll grab me by the balls and not let go. I don’t like that. I had a neighbor who had a dog like that. Not nice. I am quite attached to my balls.

Oh yours was pretty mild. It was your agreement with the quote:

not a big thing, but still a hijack.

Erm… and in what way is agreeing with a mildly-hijacking post the same as bringing up a straw man?

I blame talk radio.

Chances are that they haven’t noticed it yet. Just the other day I was asked to put a photo on a car dealer’s website. Actually a decent picture of a happy customer, standing in front of his car, but right behind the customer was a big colorful “ADULT MOVIES” sign in a shop window. Kind of ruined the mood of the photo. I thought about airbrushing it out, but I left it, just to see. I haven’t heard back about it yet. Sometimes, people who aren’t trained to look for details like that just gloss right over them, while they’re glaring to people like us.

Reminds me of my friends in high school, who were all taking Latin, and to see if their teacher was fully reading their translations, they all inserted the word “porkola” somewhere in the middle of their work to see if the teacher would catch it. Out of four papers, she saw… none of them. Missed it entirely. Details not her strong point.

So, yeah, it’s not the best picture for Clinton’s site, but I would not go so far as to say that a sign held by someone in the background where she happened to be speaking reflects on her in any substantive way. Not that this will stop those who already dislike her from using it as yet another “reason” for their opinions.

Lessee, what do we have?

  1. Her overall political views.

How different are they from Dick Gephardt’s, or from other politicians who have some bona fides as being from the Democratic wing of the Democrats? But it’s Hillary who gets the continual flak.

  1. Socialized medicine, specifically.

Ditto.

  1. Lack of self-doubt.

Are the Hillary-haters also bothered by the current occupant of the White House, who seems to have equally little doubt as he institutes sweeping changes with pretty obvious risks? (Anyone recall Reagan’s self-doubts, for that matter? Didn’t think so.)

Besides, what’s the evidence of Hillary’s lack of self-doubt - as opposed to merely healthy self-confidence? Our Prez has faced situations - be it slashing government revenues repeatedly, or taking on new nation-building projects while old ones were already in trouble - wehre self-doubt ought to have kicked in, yet he shows no traces of it. Where’s the situation in Hillary’s life where she should have had less than religious certainty in her actions, but didn’t?

  1. Her willingness to take advantage of her celebrity status.

Ditto. George W. Bush went, in six years, from being the front man for the owners of a baseball team, to President of the United States. Whatever you might think of his job as President, the story of how he got there is overwhelmingly a story of adroit use of his family name.

  1. Ruthlessness.

Sorry, folks, but she’s small potatoes here. Again, look at the current Administration. Going all-out after even their closest Democratic allies in the Senate, when election time rolled around. Putting the heat on lobbyist firms to only hire Republicans. A willingness to smear anyone who disagrees with them with the ‘soft on terrorism’ brush. These guys play hardball. (Travel office firings? Anyone care to explain how anyone, let alone the GOP, justifies this as an issue?! Sheesh.)

  1. ‘Will to power’.

Again, see George W. Bush.

  1. The pic with “religion is immoral” on the poster.

So? It was bad cropping. She’s a Methodist, fercryinoutloud.

  1. No sense of humor.

Lots of big-name politicians seem to fall flat here, on both sides of the divide. Does either Dick Gephardt or Dick Cheney have much of a sense of humor? Lord knows I’d hate to see what passes for John Ashcroft’s sense of humor, but the problem with him is more the lack of self-doubt.

The reason I bring up Dubya and friends, besides the aptness of the comparisons, is that the Hillary-haters are (with rare exceptions) manifestly not Dubya-haters. And the fact that her views aren’t that out of line with those of other leading Democrats suggests that it’s more than just “I like my bastard; I hate yours”.

It just seems to me that the reason Hillary’s become such a lightning rod is in fact that she’s a powerful, skilled, and attractive woman who happens to be of the other party from those who have a media hate machine perpetually cranked up and ready to go. If John Kerry believed exactly the same things as she does (and chances are they agree on upwards of 95% of everything important), this wouldn’t be happening to him.

There’s just something wondrously right-PC about bashing Hillary. You go to the Pizza Parlor or lots of other conservative MBs, and you don’t need to explain why you’re dumping on Hillary; a backhand slam at her while you’re discussing something barely related to her is just par for the course: we all hate Hillary here; we don’t even have to think of why we hate her; it’s just culturally ingrained, like not smoking marijuana in Muskogee. It’s part of the political correctness of that side of the culture.

But yeah, I think it has to do with being a woman. Sheesh, you can even see it in recent conservative upset with Sandra O’Connor: it would be a very different reaction, IMHO, if a man were in that swing position on the court, and voting their way about three times out of every four.

For myself–as opposed to words put into my mouth–GWB does bother me. Even when I agree with what President Bush wants to accomplish I’m crossing my fingers. His style has bothered me from day one. I thought Reagan was a good president in his first term, not in his second. RWR began to change after he was shot. That’s seriously not on topic or I’d go into more detail.

Do you find Hillary so loveable that you cannot imagine criticism of her except from “haters”? Hillary lover, Hillary lover, nyah! My default attitude regarding all politicians hovers between contempt and pained bemusement. Hate isn’t on the radar screen until they try to put a landfill in my neighborhood or something similar.

Sense of humor has no bearing on someone’s ability to be or to be elected POTUS? Wrong.

GWB, noted for self-deprecation. WJC, jokester extrordinaire, famous for funny speeches at media banquets. GHWB, unintentionally funny. He forced humor–a ONE term POTUS. To his credit, like Dole, GHWB eventually (re)gained a sense of humor once retired from presidential politics. Reagan was very funny. RWR joked about nuking the USSR. During the Cold War nothing was funny like nuclear war was funny. Reagan was the edgy humorist then. Jimmy Carter had and to this day has no sense of humor. JC mentioned “malaise” in a speech–a ONE term POTUS. Ford, pratfalls were his specialty. Best unintentionally funny POTUS ever. Helped him keep the election close. Ford wasn’t initially elected (insert stupid Bush joke) so he really doesn’t count. Nixon, no sense of humor–a ONE…

Seriously though, it’s unfair to compare Hillary Clinton to Dick Cheney. She’s running in 2008. I’m shocked Cheney hasn’t retired already. I’m a bit surprised he’s alive to tell the truth. Good luck, Dick.

I fear her because I desire her so much. I’m not big fan of her politics, but I want to get my hands on that little broad beamed hourglass shape, bowling pin ankles and all. I want a Hillary Clinton-Astro-Martha Stewart sandwhich with me as the fixings. It’s a good thing!

Bad astro!

Sheesh, I’ll not be able to look at a sandwich for days now - that damned mental image is burned into my brain.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!!!

Hillary slowly began to undo the buttons on her light green pantsuit jacket, purchased at the posh S. A. Dichtetore Clothiers in Guyana. Martha sultrily commanded, “come here you socialist bitch.” Martha’s masculine hands, toughened from years of hard domestic labor and her stint in federal prison, grasped Hillary by the lapels. She pulled Hillary towards her so roughly that she tore the remaining buttons. astro sat in the corner undressing as Martha’s inquiring tongue…

$1.99 each additional minute.

Fair enough. But still, I think the group of people who go ballistic at the thought of both Hillary and GWB can have their meetings in a minivan.

I think you’re missing the point. Criticism is one thing, and there are many perfectly good grounds for criticizing Hillary. It’s the rather intense negative reaction that many people have to Hillary that seems to me to have little basis. And IMHO, that seems to have a lot to do with her gender.

Never said it didn’t.

Nevertheless, he’s already Vice-President of the United States. So I feel I’m comparing Hillary with someone equally politically prominent, not with some Congressman from Iowa that you’ve never heard of. What’s unfair about that?

He’d better hurry up then. He’s got a lot to unsay, and maybe not much time to do it in.

Oh, don’t get me wrong – I agree entirely. I’m just saying that a supporter of hers ought to email her about it and let her staff know so they find out about it from a friend rather than from a transcript of the Rush Limbaugh show.

I’d do it myself, but I’m still pissed that her legislative aides never got back to me on a question I asked them. Anything that makes me have to call Chuck Schumer’s office pisses me off. :wink:

This year the convention is in a a Honda S2000.

The Clinton-Cheney comparison would be more useful if Cheney had any political future after 2008 (2004?). Hillary is a potential top-of-the-ticket star in the Democratic Party. Cheney has already risen as far as he ever will. A Hillary versus Jeb (sounds like a feud in Kentucky, anyway) race being the most likely scenario, I guess. Jeb, of course, is a legendary humorist. Jeb and Will Rogers.

Anyone wishing for a multi-party system? How about a “none of the above” selection? Parliamentary systems are underrated in this country. Maybe… President Gingrich? President Gephardt? Presidents Frist, Lott, or Daschle? Naah.

RTFirefly I don’t understand your point. The OP was why do you hate Hill. You posted your attitude about a bunch of other politicians, and then ignored all the comments made about Hillary with a sweeping statement.

Which means you either didn’t read or completely reject the comments about her lack of skills and questions about her ability to use power.

You go on, in a later post, to allow that there are many perfectly good grounds for criticism - but fail to point out whether or not you accept the grounds already given in this thread as legit.

If it is true that the Hillary haters who have posted here have no grounds for their hatred, then it seems you need to prove your point by disproving, or at least pose argument against, our reasons for the hating.

I heard on the radio several years ago, and cannot find a link or source for this unfortunately, when Rosalyn Carter was asked about Hillary. She got quiet and said that the problem she had with her was that she was quite arrogant. That is pretty much the same way I feel about Hillary. I get the feeling that she sees anyone who disagrees with her is a bad person, much in the same way as some conservatives view anyone who disagreed with the war was unamerican. Also as was stated somewhere above, she is unwilling to take an unpopular position.

Although I do not agree with you politically, I can understand that fear.

This is the part that I find irrational. I don’t think I’ve read a complaint about socialized medicine from Dopers from Canada and the U.K. (although I could have missed some).

That might be hard to do. :wink: Besides, people like Ken Lay and Rupert Murdoch seem to be doing a fine job of doing just that.

She would be somewhat of a hypocrite if she did that since she is apparently quite wealthy. I think that people tend to think for themselves on this particularly issue and generally, they don’t stereotype either group, in my opinion.

I have never understood why people object to clean air, clean water, wilderness preservation, etc. But I guess that’s another thread. Most environmentalists are just average folks and not in positions of power.

I am rarely restrained by politeness when it comes to politics. If people are afraid of being impolite, that is their problem. I do agree with you that if she lies, she should be called on it.

It is interesting that you see a lack of seriousness and someone else sees a lack of a sense of humor.

LBJ was known for his ability to manipulate the levers of power and because of that skill, he was able to get much needed Civil Rights legislation through Congress. I don’t necessarily see that skill as a drawback. Posing as a victim? How so?

Is it the determination that bothers you or the concept of “ruling”? I can’t imagine someone becoming President without having a lot of determination and ambition. Was you choice of the word “rule” intentional? If so, why?

I agree with both of you. I am beginning to think that talk radio is becoming “hate radio.”

Ford was never elected to the Presidency.

What would they do if Condi Rice ran against Hillary?

Watch it! This OP has a similar problem. I just try to identify with the pillars at the entrace to many government buildings. :wink:

Thanks to those of you who have taken the time to answer the OP. Some of your responses have given me a little more insight into objections to Hillary. I had always thought that it was only a matter of her being a woman and a Clinton.

That’s also true. Forgive me my imprecise word choices. Answer to the trivia question: Spiro Agnew. You nattering nabob of needless negativity. :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, bringing you and Eve into it might have been a bit of a streach. My one and only point is this: bringing up the president in a discussion of the current new york senator is tacky at best. As it appears that my postings are simply dragging the hijack out, I’ll leave it at that.

am I an idiot? no, I really meant it was a bit of a stretch, not a bit of a streach.