While I was constructing a rant for IMHO on the humiliating system for obtaining employment here in the US, I discovered I actually have a question.
A friend of mine is job hunting, going through the want ads, and approaching several companies looking for work. He currently has a job, and he is looking for a better job that pays more.
At first he followed the advice the “experts” gave him. He didn’t mention money, and went though all the hoops the interview process required. He would take time out of work, and go to interviews. Some companies even had degrading drug testing and psychological testing requirements in the bargain. When it finally came down to offering him a job, it was less than half what he is currently making.
Then he started to put his salary requirements in his resume cover letter, explaining the pay range he was looking for. He went to a lot fewer interviews, but most of them were less than the range in his letter. Why did they even bother to interview him when the pay in his letter wasn’t acceptable? He even had one set of interviews, that at the end turns out that they weren’t budgeted for the position and weren’t going to give it to anyone.
It seems to me that not only is the system humiliating for the prospective employee, but it has got to cost the employer a lot of money to screen applicants. Why won’t most employers be up-front with the salary range for a job?
My guess is that even if they knew your salary requirements, they’d try to get you at less than what you want. So they interview you to get a sense of how valuable you would be to them, regardless of what you’re looking for in a salary. If your interview is wonderful and they think you’d be very valuable, they’ll make a high offer as long as they don’t know your range (and if they know it, they’ll tend toward the higher part of the range, but not the actual high point). If the interview doesn’t go as swimmingly as that, though, then they can offer you a lower figure, again regardless of what you’re looking for.
When I’m job hunting, I first look only for the ads that list a range or a starting salary. I don’t wanna go through the hoops your friend went through; who would? But many don’t advertise their own ranges, as you’ve found out. So what do you do?
Well, after I send my initial resume and cover letter to them and they get back to me showing some interest, I politely ask them (in writing) what kind of range the position pays. I really believe it’s not bad form to find this out, but some potential employers will not be pleased. I’ve been looking at places that aren’t very near me, so I tell them something like, “I would like to come out to your office for a scheduled interview, but I would like to know in advance what the pay scale is for this particular position. I do not wish to waste your time if the salary you are offering does not meet my own requirements.”
I’m not in Human Resources, so I don’t have an inside view to this question – maybe others do. Based on my experience, though, companies want to hold the upper hand in job negotiations as long as possible. When they have a job opening and you want the job, they’ve got the upper hand. They’ll play their cards close to their vest until they decide who they want to hire, then they’ll mention the salary.
Once you know you’re being offered the job, though, you’ve got the upper hand. The company has screened several people, and selected you. Now you can start making demands. Don’t like the salary? Negotiate. Don’t like the vacation benefits? Negotiate. Many people simply take what the company offers at face value, when frequently it’s what amounts to the company’s opening bid.
Interestingly, in recent years companies have been more up-front about their salary ranges, as workers became harder to find. With the mini-recession that seems to be going on, that may change back. I’ve noticed a couple of locally based corporations have on their Web sites the types of questions they recommend you ask during an interview with them, and salary range is one of them.
Interviewing for a job is a sales pitch (albeit an odd one since both parties are trying to sell themselves to the other). Nevertheless the best method of selling is face-to-face. If an employer prints salary requirements many prosepective employees will never bother to send a resume in. The employer would like to see as many resumes as possible and then make a decision on their own about who to hire. If the candidate is really stellar they might increase the offered salary (I’ve seen it happen) or the employer might try to talk the person into working for less than they want with the promise of better benefits, a better career track, a better work environment or whatever.
Also, other employees in a company may see job postings and then get a very good idea of what a specific class of employee makes and that could make for trouble.
I agree and wish like crazy that job postings included salary ranges but I doubt we’ll ever see that.
lots of good answers here…
but the system as it is works just fine.
if employers specified a salary range, say 70-100k, then they’d never have a chance to interview anyone who thought they were worth less than 70k, and anyone who thought they were worth more than 100k.
Yeah, employers hold the upper hand, but i think the system works well for everyone involved. most employees know what they are worth within 30k or so… it’s not like you’re going to an interview wondering if the job will pay 40k o 180k.
employers get a good idea of your skills, and then you set your price. it’s bound to be a little high.
decent software geeks in sili valley will demand 110k, employers will offer maybe 80k if applicants are thin, or agree to 110k if the applicant is what they need.
then everyone plays the give and take game for a few days and the employee gets something pretty close to what he/she deserves.
Hmm… If I saw a range of, say, 70-100K, and I met the listed job requirements, I would immediately think I was worth at least the minimum of 70K. I would then presume that the more experience I had in that particular field, the closer to that 100K I would get.
As an employer I had tons of probems. When I was a reservations manager our H/R department would give me all these people way over-qualified.
It got so bad I would tell people up front before bringing them in how much the job paid. In a way it worked. Instead of hiring one full time I got two part time. This was at lesser rate.
I have found when applying if you have a job when you are looking you are in the drivers seat. Ask what the last person made. See how they answer it.
I found out I was being way underpaid as I am a systems analyst and I help out our MIS person and I was given access to the salaries to upgrade the ADP system.
I said “If this is what the last person got, that is what the job pays.” When it says “salary desired” put “What the job pays.”
Most employers will out and out lie about salary. My former boss was getting transfered and he said after one of his people said “I applied for a job three years ago with him but he said I wanted to much money.”
She still makes less than everyone else who they hired since.
There are managers doing the same job, same work load and there are literally $25,000 difference in salaries.
The best advice is look while you have a job. Ask for a little more than you want. Above all settle on a salary you will be comfortable making. Shoot for that or more. Also ask about vacations. Most employers have set rules they don’t vary from about vacation. 1 year = 2 week, 5 years = 3 weeks 10 years = 4 weeks and so on. If you want 3 weeks. Ask for the equivelent of 1 week with pay MORE for your salary. That way you can take a week off without pay and still get paid for it.
And be careful of deals. Part of my deal was training. I was supposed to get almost $7,000 worth of training classes this year. Now they slashed the budget and laid people off. So I get NO training. If I wanted it that would cost me $7,000.
I considered this as part of my raise when they upped my salary. I was wrong.
