Citizenship status should confer a benefit that protects citizens (and legal immigrants) from legal action by illegal immigrants. Think about it…why do our laws apply to those who shouldn’t even be in the country? If you want the benefits of a country’s laws, become a citizen or enter the country legally (as a tourist, student, or for work). This is just something I was wondering about.
Shouldn’t this be a GD tread?
I for one would not like to see gangs patrolling the border for the ‘sport’ of raping, murdering and pillaging illegal aliens. Believe me, if it were legal there are enough sick people out there to make this happen.
No way I want it either. I was just wondering on a philosophical level. I also did not want this post to be perceived as anti-immigration or racist in any way.
Umm…as far as I know, they do. If you aren’t in a country legally you’re deported back to your country of origin.
What circumstances are you thinking of where someone who’s clearly an illegal immigrant has gained from the legal system in your country (USA?)
“Philosophical” question my eye. Our great nation deals directly with this sort of question every day, and not in a good way.
For instance, in my town an escaped “illegal alien” (about 5’2" tall) got brutally beaten by four strapping six-foot-tall immigration agents. Not only did they beat him, but they showed utter contempt for the law and witnesses by beating him in the foyer of a crowded apartment building, and then in a crowded street. They were confident that they could get away with that because most of the witnesses were probably “illegal” themselves.
Despite the obvious dangers, two women (whom I regard as moral heroes) pleaded with these government thugs to stop beating their victim. As punishment for speaking out, the agents had the local police arrest the two women for “interfering.” As the cops were driving the women away, somebody asked them what would become of the women’s young children, and these fine public servants answered, “That’s not our problem.” These two women then had to fight their own deportation cases, and were totally intimidated from testifying in the case of the beating victim.
As for the beaten man, the agents lied that he had attacked them, he was imprisoned and charged with attacking his attackers, and his bloody shirt duly got “lost” from the evidence room. Despite his lingering problems with pain, numbness and blacking out, he was not X-rayed or given any real medical treatment for his injuries; the Honduran embassy was rebuffed in its attempts to provide a private doctor; and he was not permitted any visitors until community activists raised enough money to fly his mother all the way from Honduras.
When the prosecuting U.S. attorney was put on the stand and questioned about selective prosecution, he lied about the beating victim’s prior record. Finally, convinced that he was going to die in the Federal lock-up, this “illegal” was forced to plead guilty to false charges in exchange for immediate deportation. (The federal agents stole his belongings and legal papers on the trip back home.)
I am quite certain of the facts in this case, because I have seen the case documents, I have spoken with the two female witnesses, and I even went door-knocking in that apartment building with the victim’s attorney. Plenty of witnesses, no one willing to testify – all afraid. If you still don’t believe me, I will be happy to post more details, including the names of the four Federal thugs and the mendacious U.S. Attorney. Or you can wait till I post it all to the CopCrimes website.
And this is not an isolated instance. Things like this happen to immigrants every day.
So, I believe your hypothesis has already come true. “Illegals” do not, in fact, have any legal rights that the government has to respect. “Illegals” live in a Kafkaesque nightmare which they can only escape by going back to the Dickensian or Orwellian nightmare of their homelands.
Moving this to Great Debates, as per ticker’s excellent suggestion.
First off, citizenship does have certain privileges that neither the illegal alien nor the resident alien shares. One of these very special privileges is the right to vote.
Second, in the United States of America, the Constitution protects all. Each and every person within the borders of the United States is protected by that Constitution. This is known as “The Rule of Law” as opposed to “The Rule of the Privileged Elite.”
See above.
You are ignoring the fact that the laws prohibiting illegal entry apply to those who enter the country illegal. Now how would you like it if those laws didn’t apply to those who shouldn’t be here but are here?
Wondering is great. Hope this helped.
Sorry to nitpick, but you should have preceded this paragraph with “In the United States of America” as well. In other countries under certain circumstances noncitizen residents may be granted voting rights.
Now let me ask the OP’er a question. Do you believe that illegal immigrants should be excluded from that part of the law that prohibits rape, other sexual assault and spousal abuse? This is an ongoing problem in many countries with large illegal populations - women are afraid to report their treatment lest they be deported. In practice this amounts to putting their abuser, who may or may not be an illegal immigrant (usually not, I’d guess), above the law of the country. Is that OK with you?
Your last sentence has it backwards - our laws do apply to those who are legally in the country. That means that citizens or legal residents cannot break the law. It doesn’t matter who they affect when they so break the law. The illegal resident isn’t getting the “benefit” of the law - the legal resident is being punished for breaking the law.
Sua
SuaSponte posted:
“It doesn’t matter who they affect when they so break the law. The illegal resident isn’t getting the “benefit” of the law - the legal resident is being punished for breaking the law.”
Thanks for correcting my logic, I now realize my thinking was incorrect.
ruadh:
No it’s not okay with me. Thanks to SusSponte’s reply, I realize my thinking was wrong. Sorry if I upset or offended you, I didn’t think anyone would become upset as a result of my curiosity. I didn’t think people would be so touchy. Besides, I hope you seriously did not think that I believed that abusing illegal immigrants was okay.
An important point to keep in mind here is that the U.S. goes on the idea (at least in theory, despite tclouie’s sad post) that all people have inherent Rights. Neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Right’s grants them, it just lists a few - and it doesn’t pretend to be an exhaustive list either, see the 9th Amendment. So you don’t have to be a citizen to them to apply.
…you don’t have to be a citizen for them to apply.
Sheesh - it’s too late to be posting.