Why don't men understand conception? Why do women lie about it?

I think the idea of breastfeeding = birth control comes from the days before women were back in the workforce in 6 weeks. In the times where the only option was to exclusively breastfeed your child on demand or find a wetnurse, most women probably could rely on it to prevent a sibling for at least six months. The problem is the list of caveats has gotten lost in the shuffle. They are important caveats. Likely too many people are told, “You can’t get pregnant while breastfeeding” and take that at face value. That doesn’t make them negligent or stupid. Just underinformed.

Minipills are progesterone only - no estrogen. They can be used as birth control for women who aren’t lactating, but they are not as forgiving as the more common combination pills. Minipills do not supress ovulation as effectivley as combo pills and work primarily by thickening the cervical mucus to the point that it’s a barrier to sperm. Minipills MUST be taken the same time every day. They should not be taken so much as an hour late if it can be helped. It was also suggested to me that if we were a “morning” couple that I take the pill at bedtime so that it was at its most effective during sex (or vice versa).

Now let’s look at the sex during period problem: Typical woman’s cycle is 28-32 days. YMMV. For this example, let’s take a woman with a slightly shorter cycle, say 26 days. The second (post ovulation) portion of the cycle, the luteal phase, is almost always 14 days (barring a luteal phase defect). This would mean a woman would ovulate on day 12, with the count being started from the first day of the menstrual cycle. Let’s say she has a 6 day menstrual cycle and has sex on the 6th day, what with her flow being a little lighter and therefore less messy that day. I’m having trouble nailing down a firm lifetime in days for sperm (not easy to google from work) but I’ve heard numbers as long as five days. This means if the woman ovulates one day early, or if we’ve got some extra long-life sperm, pregnancy is entirely conceivable (pun totally intended).

Now take the above explanation to the general populace. Ask them:

  1. What is day 1 of a woman’s menstrual cycle counted?
  2. Define the luteal phase.
  3. How long can sperm live inside a woman after sex?
  4. When in their cycle do women typically ovulate?
  5. What period in a woman’s cycle is typically the most fertile?
  6. How many women’s cycles are typical?
    And I think you will find large chunks of people both male and female who do not know the answers to more than a couple of those questions. Why? Because it’s “gross.” Or confusing. Or uninteresting. Why do people play reproductive roulette? Because they’re horny, and because “It won’t happen to me. Not this time. Probably.”

And this from a woman who knew better and had an (adorable) oops baby due to being too lazy to chart temps and quite possibly being bad at counting. Math minor indeed.

Well…I’m gonna have to call a “no” on this one, as well.

IF you’re tracking your fertility so that you know for sure you ovulated, then unprotected intercourse during the period following is “safe”. If your temp went up and then fell and you start “bleeding”, then go for it. You’re safe for a few more days after that as well, but I won’t go into the full details of how to determine how long you’re safe for. Buy the book.

Once you’ve tracked your fertility for awhile and know your pattern, you can even start having unprotected sex a few days after you ovulate, as well - sex four days after ovulation (even assuming multiple ovulations in one cycle) is infertile, because while sperm can live a while in good quality cervical fluid, an unfertilized egg is only viable for 24 hours.

So, buy the book. Learn your fertility signs. Track 'em. Have hot bareback monkey sex (almost) three weeks a month and don’t get pregnant!

Thanks for the shout out for this book. My wife has a copy, she loves it, and I’ve been meaning to read it myself so I can get a better understanding of her fertility. Glad to know that you recommend it!

Well put, and worth repeating.

This depends a lot on the characteristics of the individual woman’s menstrual patterns, as well as the time of her period. Yes, we shouldn’t wildly exaggerate the gory grossness of sex during menstruation, but we shouldn’t understate it either.

To be completely and brutally candid, gentlemen, if you do this you need to be prepared for the possibility of seeing your post-coitally withdrawn organ apparently dripping blood and smeared with what looks like, you should forgive the expression, bloody mucus. If this possibility squicks you absolutely out of existence, I would advise against your experimenting with vaginal intercourse during menstruation.

Sorry to be so graphic and all, but if the thought really appalls you then you’re better off being cautioned against it verbally rather than experiencing it in the flesh. So to speak.

Or, as mentioned, they didn’t have the body fat percentage needed to be fertile, on account of passing nutrients on to the baby.

There are many women today of normal nutrition and body fat percentages who use LAM to prevent getting pregnant (counting myself but only for a brief time). The key is you have to follow all the rules outlines by Whynot such as frequency of breastfeeding, feeding on demand, only for six months, etc. I won’t argue that nutrition wasn’t lacking in some cultures/times in the past, but it’s still a valid method today.

Even in antiquity, though, people were aware that the correlation between breastfeeding and non-conception wasn’t perfect. Aristotle said:

So even though Aristotle didn’t understand the process of ovulation, he knew that menstruation could resume and conception could occur during lactation, although normally they didn’t.

And, if you REALLY REALLY REALLY don’t want to get pregnant, use multiple means of birth control or avoid placing the winkie anywhere near the hoo-ha. It doesn’t matter what form of birth control you use, everything has SOME failure rate - sometimes its sloppy use (poorly inserted diaphram, not reading them thermometer right at 6am), sometimes it a defect (broken condom), sometimes its lack of education (I didn’t know antibiotics would make the pill less effective) sometimes its an intentional deception (don’t worry honey, I’m on the pill).

Having sex with a woman while she is on her period doesn’t bother me, it washes off after all. I do draw the line at oral sex during a period though, it makes it taste funny. But YMMV.

Parents who are too embarrassed to talk to their kids about sex: there are books out there with accurate information in them about sex and birth control. You could give the kid one of those. It’s not as good as discussing it with them, but it’s better than letting them get the wrong information from their friends or other sources, or having them get no information at all. My parents took that approach with me (gave me a book to read about it), and I’ve managed to get to age 32 with no “oops” babies.

Wouldn’t all the sugar in the 7-Up cause horrible yeast infections?

Ignorant, not stupid. Liars, yeah, some of them are. Don’t like that? Tough shit, honey. Also, big difference between me calling women you don’t know liars, and you calling me a stupid liar, an assertion which you have utterly failed to prove, since your data did not apply to the woman you’re defending in such a kneejerk fashion.

You persist with this word stupid. I call it ignorance, and I don’t particularly find it excusable. Everyone has access to the information. It’s certainly the most important shit you can know, yet so few people know it, and thus, tons of kids who are unwanted, at least by their fathers if not both parents. If that’s not worth ranting about, I don’t know what is.

I gave specific examples, and I think those particular women are either willfully ignorant or liars. I’m sticking to that no matter how much you yell at me.

If you want the info, it’s certainly out there.

I think I ranted against ignorant and self-serving men too, so that’s your own hobby horse you’re riding here.

I’m friends with several health teachers on both the high school and middle school levels. They are very fucking explicit about the organs involved and how they work, as are the science teachers who teach reproduction. The info is out there, is obtainable. Whose fault is it that perfectly intelligent adults don’t know this shit? Not public school teachers, sorry.

Wow, you are totally off your fucking rocker if you think that’s what I’m saying. You’re screaming at me for shit I didn’t say. This is what I mean about dialing back the attitude. But hey, if you want to indulge in some unjustified attacks, go ahead. This is the Pit, bitch, go crazy, but just know your rage would be better directed elsewhere.

Also, your snotty assertion that I was WRONG, that women CAN’T get pregnant while breastfeeding, is erroneous. They can and do, unless they are acting solely as nursing mothers for the first six months of their child’s life. Please do not tell people they don’t have to use birth control because they’re breast feeding (because a lot of people will only hear that and not all the conditionals necessary for it to be true) unless you want an unwanted baby on your conscience.

True - but some will not even go this route. There are parents out there that seem to ignore the existence of sex altogether, or think their kids will just “figure it out”.

I don’t know, but it can’t be good for you. I think the acidity would be a concern too.

I have no dog in this fight, but. . .don’t you think you’re, er, over-reacting a little? WhyNot may be disagreeing with you, but she’s being pretty reasonable about it (we ARE in the pit). The only one I see screaming, yelling, and cursing is you.

Must be that time of month.
::d&r::

She called me a stupid liar and accused me of letting men off the hook and blaming innocent women for their reproductive follies. She was reacting to things I wasn’t saying and attacking me personally. I felt like her post was responding to other people who have made the arguments she’s countering, but I’m not. I also think her response was pretty kneejerk and not tailored to this specific thread or to me. You say she’s disagreeing with me, but she’s really not. She’s giving info that’s not relevant to the situation I cited, and accusing me of holding positions I don’t hold.

As for swearing, I swear all the time. Screaming? Oh please.

I wish it were that time of the month, then I’d have an excuse for finding all this so aggravating.

Or sometimes if they ARE- case in point, my friend who was breastfeeding her twins and meeting all of the “conditions” mentioned upthread. She got pregnant. But that doesn’t count, I’m sure.

YMMV, as usual.

It seemed to me that she was showing that no one here knows everything and explaining how they may have misunderstood what they “knew”. You just got pissy when she tried to apply your standard of “you’re ignorant/stupid/whatever if you don’t know this stuff” to you as well.

And I’m sure it will. The problem is, everyone’s body is different. If you don’t want to have a baby, or the man you’re with doesn’t, then it behooves you to take precautions. Even if you don’t know the specifics of how reproduction works, why take a chance? WHY? I can’t think of a reason to, unless you’re lazy, or want a baby, or you’re kidding yourself.

Backpedal, backpedal. You came in here with a thread title that wasn’t about “specific” or “particular” men and women, but about “men” and “women” in general:

"Why don’t men understand conception? Why do women lie about it?"

IOW, men are merely ignorant about reproductive functions, but women are actively lying about them to dupe men with misinformation. You have nobody but yourself to blame if that unfair generalization is earning you some resentment here.

Exactly.

The words “stupid” and “liar” were chosen because they were words you used, repeatedly, in the OP.

Questioning whether or not I should brand you “a stupid liar” was meant to convey the point that I shouldn’t, any more that this (and only this) subject isn’t a reason to brand your acquaintances stupid liars. The next three options - all which boil down to assuming your and their lack of knowledge was due to ignorance, NOT stupidity, or to put it more simply, NOT calling you a stupid liar because you can’t be expected to know what no one’s taught you - was the actual choice of action.