Removing tax exemption is removing people’s rights BY DEFINITION. I’m not equating it with anything, I am describing it accurately based on American law.
So the Church has “death camps” in your imagination. You would surely agree that this is somewhat different from the Nazi death camps that exist in reality, would you not?
So your opinion is that they’re a hate group. So what? You’re free to shun John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden and the entire Kennedy family and Tom Daschle and Dennis Kucinich and Dick Gephardt if you wish. You might want to give some consideration to how that would affect the political balance in this country, but that’s really your decision and not mine.
Nonsense. You do, so do millions of others; as I have repeatedly pointed out, as have others. Again; if a less powerful, non-religious organization acted like the Church, would it be respected? Would it be tolerated? Would it even likely be allowed to survive? No, it would not.
To the best of my knowledge, there have been no organized (or unorganized) efforts by gay people, or by organizations that advocate on behalf of gay rights, to prevent Catholic people from conducting their personal lives according to their faith, nor has there been any effort to deny services, rights, or privileges to Catholic people. Nor have there been any efforts to force devout Catholics to enter into same-sex unions, engage in homosexual acts, or otherwise modify their personal behavior to be more like gay people.* Nor are there efforts to force Catholic people to obtain abortions or use contraception.
On the other hand, the Catholic church, its representatives, and organizations that advocate on behalf of the advancement of Catholicism have actively campaigned to prevent gay people from conducting their personal lives according to their faiths (even when those people are not Catholic) and have actively campaigned to deny services, rights, and privileges to gay people. Further, the Catholic church, its representatives, etc., routinely attempt to force non-Catholic people to adhere to Catholic teachings by making abortion and contraception unavailable to them.
*Whatever that might entail.
No you aren’t. You are flat out wrong.
Wrong. Tax-exempt status is a privilege, not a right, and it is granted to institutions, not to individuals, i.e., people.
**Considering the topic, this has actually been a relatively civil discussion.
However, if there are any more posts claiming to describe another poster, by value, intrinsic worth, capability of thought, or ability to select the appropriate clothing, I am going to start handing out Warnings.
I am not sure about “hate the sin, love the sinner,” but I am very much aware of “attack the post, not the poster.”
Anyone creating a post should scan it for the word “you” or any other poster’s username. If either appear in the post, be very sure that there is nothing personal, particularly in the nature of an attack, before you submit the post.
[ /Moderating ]**
And he’s right. They are bigots.
Apparently Churches have ‘rights’ to tax exemption.
In point of fact, no, you have never pointed out any instance where I asked for special consideration for the Catholic church.
You are free to do so now. Point out some instance where I said the Catholic church should be given special consideration, over and above other non-profit groups.
Or you could simply re-rant. Your call.
Regards,
Shodan
Yes, well that was my point in other posts too. I don’t have any problem with the objections of the Church to stealing or murder, these things which we can pretty much all agree are objective bad for individuals and society.
But there is a massive difference when you get into categories like homosexuality. By way of analogy, imagine if some militant homosexual group preached that heterosexual sex leads to intrinsic moral evil, that your inclination towards the opposite sex some sort of ‘disorder’ that should not be acted upon. We wouldn’t pay the slightest attention to them, but this is the sell that Catholicism tries to make.
Aren’t there hundreds of small churches who consider homosexual acts a sin that are allowed to survive and even get respect in their communities?
It has. About a third of Catholic priests are gay, according to most analysts. That fits with my experiences growing up in the church. The last two priests I had before leving the church were most definitely gay. I’d like to know how many of the Cardinals that voted Ratzinger in as Pope were gay.
Fair enough, I stand corrected.
Ok, so the term bigot is being added to my dictionary of terms that are not particularly useful in any meaningful sense.
This does not seem to square with reality very well. The debate over gay rights has never been as loud as it is right now, and that coincides perfectly with gays attempting to legitimize their relationships through the same mechanism used by heterosexuals. In the current political environment, the primary objection to gay rights campaigns is not that we’re too promiscuous, it’s that we’re daring to suggest that our relationships are as import as heterosexual relationships. That’s the issue that’s driving people to the polls to vote away our rights. No one’s passing laws preventing gays from having anonymous bar hook ups. Indeed, one could almost look at the actions of the Catholic church on this issue and come to the conclusion that the church is trying to promote promiscuity.
Not in this century, I don’t think. Probably not in the next one, either. The Catholic Church still hasn’t gotten fully on board with the idea of gender equality, and that’s after over a hundred and fifty years of steady progress on the issue. I don’t expect progress on gay rights to go any faster than that. To the contrary, I suspect progress will be much slower, as the Catholic Church continues to expand in third world countries, where social acceptance of homosexuality is much further behind than it is in developed nations.
I tried google with no luck. Do you have a cite that “most analysits find 1/3 of Catholic priests are gay”? I’d like to see how they performed that research.
Here’s a site that references a number of sources, well footnoted.
You’re right. We would pay no attention to them—because what they believe would have no basis in reality. Heterosexual sex, like it or not, is how we all got here. It is how nature designed our continuance. It is the natural and healthy drive that passes one’s gene’s on. Homosexual sex enjoys no special place like that. Look at the sweep of history; homosexuality was at times, like in periods of Ancient Greece, accepted—but as a dalliance. The only point I’m trying to make here is that trying to equate homosexuality with heterosexuality—from a societal standpoint—is absurd in the extreme.
So now you have accepted you were wrong, how about an answer to the question you were asked?
Hehe, the Catholic Church generally preaches that heterosexual sex is an inherent moral evil too. 
I guess anyone who is up in arms about this has never read anything St. Paul had to say about sex in general. Basically that sex is for purely procreative, and that you should be preparing yourself for the afterlife, not for life in the here and now, but if you MUST, then at least do it with your wife.
The Catholic church is pretty much against sex in general. It’s just that homosexual sex doesn’t have the procreative aspect, and as such is viewed as immoral but I don’t think it’s viewed as any more immoral than having a hetero threesome, or masturbating ten times a day, or being promiscuous, or being polygamous.