It’s quite possibe now to vote for a US citizen but have it also be a vote for putin and oligarchy.
It’s not a choice between “steady as she goes” and “Roll n down the highway” anymore. We have unfreedom in the air now for real.
We have US fascists who are against plurality, and democracy, all throughout a major party competing for the reins of power.
I’m a little confused by your question. I was responding to the suggestion that it’s “objectively reasonable” to not support Sanders because Putin is propping him up. I don’t think that’s true.
I just also don’t think it’s true that Putin’s arranging every single piece on the board, and certainly not doing so with specific purpose. It’s definitely true that Trump and Sanders are very unlike each other, and that one is solicitous of Putin and the other isn’t. But I don’t see why that means Putin is acting specifically against Sanders. I’m sure he does not like Bernie Sanders very much. But I think he’d be doing much the same thing as he’s doing now if Bernie Sanders didn’t exist.
He is supporting sanders too. I don’t follow what you’re unspooling. I never spoke of a “board.”
But it most certainly means he does not want sanders as potus. I think one would have to come up with a motive or reason to deny that.
Putin knows who he is supporting and what they represent in the US. To deny it is delusional.
It is uncomfortable to have to have putin be so close to our system. But it doesn’t mean he is masterminding. He is just exploiting us through his training as an intelligence officer. It’s his job.
Where does Tulsi Gabbard, who has also been pushed by Russian bots, fit into your two person calculus?
Sorry I missed this: It’s not relevant to anyone in the US who putin supports, right?
Right?
Ha. Take it up with Jimmy. I only appear to be in this by rhetoric.
Just ran across this video of Bernie supporting Daniel Ortega. A tiny sample of what he’ll face. Yes, I’m aware his 30 and under Bros don’t care, the 50 plus year olds who vote will care.
Going to see Bernie tonight in San Antonio. High, VERY high potential for personal drama as well! Will keep y’all informed!
I’ll just come right out and admit that I don’t understand what you’ve been saying at all. Yes, of course Putin would prop up Gabbard, etc. If he’s anywhere near as competent as your average Democrat is afraid he is, he’s trying to create confusion at every possible point of intervention. He ought to have irons in all kinds of fires, so that in the case where Pete Buttigieg was a runaway favorite, it would eventually leak that there were a bunch of Pete bots linked to Russia. That’s basically my entire thesis here.
I do not have enough of a grasp on what you’re arguing to understand why this is a point you think I should take up, but there you go.
The only thing I know is that you are uncomfortable with putin being seen as a mastermind, meaning to me that you should explain if gabbard is under putins influence. I don’t know if it’s true but it’s in your wheelhouse if you don’t think putin is a mastermind. This is the logic of my post. I don’t have any questions for you. But he is playing us like a fiddle. If that’s not a mastermind ok. What is it? I don’t care what it’s called but it is there.
To back up my earlier answer with some data, here are the numbers from the 538 blog (time stamp 7:50 ET post by Laura Bronner):
Sanders leads among party ID Democrats with 31%; 2nd is Biden with 18%. Bernie is winning among self-described Democrats.
I’m a bit surprised he’d endorse a callow young whippersnapper like Bernie.
Since Russian support for anyone is the political kiss of death, then, as mentioned above, it makes perfect sense that Moscow would endorse everyone in some way or other, thus being able to sabotage any candidate down the road in some way or other.
Ah, some people have such well-reasoned responses. My reason for disliking Sanders is more personal. I want old, white men to STOP YELLING AT ME!!! Stop stabbing the air with your finger and shouting! I loathe Trump, but I can no more tolerate listening to Sanders’ voice than I can to his. I switch off the TV or close the video when either of them starts speaking. Just shut up, already. I’ll read what you have to say, but I’m not going to sit here and be yelled at.
That said, I’ll vote for Sanders if he’s the nominee. But if he wins, I’ll spend 4 more years of reading Presidential speeches instead of listening to them.
Indeed. Watching two elderly New Yorkers bellowing away at each other for six months is going to be painful though admittedly with some comedic potential too. Then one of them (hopefully Bernie but more likely Trump) will bellow away for another four years.
If it is Bernie versus Trump it will be the least impressive pair of candidates in a long time, perhaps ever. And to think that just 8 years ago it was Obama versus Romney, one of the most impressive candidate pairs ever.
That’s a good observation.
And “bellowing” is a good word, but really only for Bernie. Trump is also unpleasant to listen to, but in a different way. It’s exhausting to be in earshot of anything Bernie says, even if it’s something I totally agree with.
:smack:
I suppose this must be what it was like to be a mainstream Democrat watching George McGovern sweep through the primaries in 1972. A disaster unfolding in slow motion, and you can’t seem to prevent it no matter how you jump up and down and shout warnings.
So you were pro-Somoza?
Not surprising. Not surprising at all.
Right, because those are the only options. :dubious:
Upthread (or maybe in a different thread), I posted an article about how the opposition newspaper had been harshly critical of Somoza, and then began doing the same thing when the Sandinistas failed to live up to commitments to democracy and civil liberties. The result? Government censorship, harassment, etc.
Back then that was the case.
In any case, I will expect the corporate media to not normalize a Bernie presidency just as It has teen dong with Trump
There was over 5,000 people at the San Antonio Bernie rally last night - I was able to grab a couple of chairs for my lady and I in this SRO crowd.
Frankly, I was impressed by the Big Grandpa Efficiency in the room - the rally was scheduled from 7-9pm, Bernie came in @ 7:15, gave his 30 minute stump speech to a screaming audience, and I was out and back on the highway before 8pm, with the rest of my Saturday night before me. Good fuckin’ job!
Young audience (but SA is a young city), very Latino (again, San Antonio here), had a rock-Latino band play prior to 7pm with a lot of audience sing-along in Spanish to traditional (I assume) songs played in a rock and roll style.
My tweet thread about this, with pics: https://twitter.com/JohnT15/status/1231375237658357761?s=20
Crowd estimate: 5,700