I think it’s more so the rise of authoritarianism. Democracy historically suicides it’s self, the reich is simply a symptom of inequality. How about we address those in power and hold them accountable, instead of havng a lackluster argument about how we shouldn’t kill the king, I’ll say this again, fuck the king.
You keep saying this, as though Sanders is the only one who wants to raise taxes and improve our social services.
Among the candidates, we are taking about variations of Coke, Pepsi, and maybe Dr. Pepper at the most extreme. You keep painting it like it’s a choice between one glass of fine wine and 20 glasses of pee.
I guess what I don’t understand is why this argument doesn’t work in both directions. I mean, it is trivially true that the moderates need the progressives in order to win in the general… but isn’t it equally, if not more, true that the progressives need the moderates in order to win in the general? And if it is true - and it is - that both sides need one another in order to win, then whence the argument that Side A should just completely concede to Side B? This makes no sense to me.
Yes. This is especially true since Congress will need to approve any legislation. In fact, as I suggested above, the more moderate President may have a better chance of getting a radical agenda passed.
I’m dismayed that Bernie supporters and other progressives do not understand this.
To be fair many, maybe most, do.
The position of the op is nonzero but not the norm.
You asked why…and I’m telling you why. Each of those claims can be backed up with a google search. It isn’t hard. Go for it.
Actually I won’t. I won’t vote for him. I’m under no obligation to do so, and I will not vote for anyone I think is morally repugnant. If that means I say home and vote for neither Trump or Sanders, that is what I will do.
This is my reason for not supporting him in the primaries.
He only wants to be part of the group when the group can help him get a big job. If he had stayed with the Dems after 2016, I’d have a different opinion, but he didn’t.
Its one of my big reasons for not supporting him at all. I find it offensively unethical to demand that a group support you, but do not return the loyalty. Its narcissistic, and we have one of those in office. We need a public servant, not a self absorbed egoist.
Oh, and he’s had plenty of chances in government to actually write those bills, sponsor them and build the support he needs to get them to the floor in his many years in Congress. Why, when he had (has) the power to create legislation, did he not create this legislation and move it forward? Why should we believe he will do so when he is President - a position that does not have the power to create legislation?
Barack Obama, may I ask what state you live in? And if it’s not too personal, what Congressional district?
Lets not forget what a vile shitbag Sanders was after it was clear he wasn’t going to get the nomination. He continued his scorched earth rhetoric even after the last primary! Take it to the convention!!! Superdelegates haven’t voted yet, let’s harass them into voting for the candidate who got fewer votes in the primaries. He kept his secret service protection for at least a month after the last primary votes were cast.
He was around around for Nader, he can’t be so stupid as to not know that giving all those college kids false hope would lead to third party votes, write ins, or just staying home and pouting.
As I’ve mentioned before, it’s the equivalent of having your heart broken after breaking up with a boyfriend or girlfriend, and that one false friend keeps ripping the wound open by constantly telling you who they saw your ex with last weekend. Bernie had to know that it was going to take time for his most fervent supporters to accept voting for Clinton.
I have great doubts as to his motives, in fact i dont think he wants anyone to vote for *any *Democratic candidate, including Sanders. IMHO.
It worked very well for the kremlin in 2016, why not try the same tactic?
It’s a false message. With the exception of the 2016 election the opposite has been true. Some strange things happened in that election, like the Comey letter, and the interference of the kremlin.
The Comey letter wont happen again. Yes, the kremlin and GOP trolls will attempt to divide the Democratic party, in fact they are doing it now, as we speak. But Facebook and voters are more aware and wise. Sure, some will be taken in, and feed the trolls, pass their crap along, but not like 2016.
However, just like in 2016, the Moderates do have to bend to the progressives- which they did by putting most of Bernies ideas in as planks in their platform.
(I’m from the UK, so I don’t get to vote.)
However Trump is a disaster not only for the US, but also for the rest of the World.
For example we have an election here + now in which the leading candidate (Boris Johnson) is a lying incompetent. But he uses Trump-like tactics to get ahead. :smack:
So by all means adopt Sander’s policies if they are a) useful and b) justifiable.
But I don’t think he’s the actual politician to run against Trump.
And if you’re a Sanders’ supporter who won’t support any other candidate for the Democratic nomination, shame on you.
[quote=“thorny_locust, post:119, topic:835632”]
But running on attacking Hillary got Trump elected.
…/QUOTE]
Yep.
Oh no, the difference between any Dem candidate and trump is the * choice between one glass of fine wine and 20 glasses of pee*. But true, the Dem candidates are fairly close.
While I like Bernie and appreciate his progressive stances, I feel that at this point the country needs to be pulled back to center after it’s very hard right turn into weirdness. I’d like to see Joe run with a progressive VP pick, like Mayor Pete. I think Pete could stand to get more practical experience in the major league and Joe could use someone with a fresh perspective close to his ears. Best to leave the progressive firebrands like Bernie and Waters in the Senate where they can probably make more of a difference than they would as President. Beto should actually win something else first before trying on the “daddy pants”. Kamala, bless her heart, seems to have almost as much charisma as Joe Friday. That said, I’d rejoice in any one of them over what we have presently. Now, if you’ll excuse me I have to use the Trump.
I agree that the DNC stacked the deck against Bernie last time around. Whether or not that gave Trump the election is debatable. Hillary took Ohio and Pennsylvania for granted and found out they were not. That, as much as anything else probably tipped the scale in Dump’s favor. Bernie did not play well among black voters. If he had the nomination enough of them might have stayed home feeling that they were not invested in the election. That might have given Dumpster the nod as well.
Nope. At best they gave her a tiny edge in a couple debates.