It’s not evidence that he had a possible concussion arising from having his noggin pounded on pavement.
Concussions can occur without bleeding; all blood tells you is that the skin was injured. But get this: Since it’s clear the guy had no bandages or band-aids on his head in the surveillance video, we can be pretty confident that he wasn’t beeding. Even minor scratches would have been dressed by the paramedics. So where does that leave us for evidence that his head was actually beaten against the sidewalk?
No apparent wounds in the surveillance video. No bandages either. The cops indicated that EMT cleared Zimmerman for release without noting any important caveats about him needing medical evaluation for a concussion (or a broken nose).
Right now, you have to take it completely on faith that Zimmerman’s injuries are backed up by EMT records. The problem is that it’s unlikely that these other available sources of information would fail to have these clues, if in fact the clues were present.
In order to accept Zimmerman’s statement you have to accept a constellation of improbabilities:
That Martin would have violently attacked this man unprovoked, even though he initially ran away from him as though he was afraid
That Martin would have violently attacked an armed man, despite only having tea and candy in his possession
That Zimmerman was the one being heard on the 911 tapes, screaming desperately for help, even though he was the one with the gun and Martin was not
That Zimmerman would have waited until he was on the ground, fighting for his life, instead of pulling out his gun the instant the boy allegedly approached him
That Zimmerman’s nose and head was bleeding but none of this blood made it on any of his clothes even though he’d been thrashing around on the ground
That Martin was sitting right on top of Zimmerman when the shot went off, but none of the blood stained Zimmerman’s clothes
That Zimmerman was punched and his head was beaten forcefully against a sidewalk, but none of his injuries were apparent on surveillance video
That Zimmerman’s head was beaten forcefully against a sidewalk, but the EMTs didn’t bandage any wounds on his head
That Zimmerman’s head was beaten forcefully against a sidewalk, but the cops didn’t note anything in their report about him needing to be evaluated for a concussion at a hospital
The question is…how many more improbabilities are you willing to swallow before you join the rest of American in saying WTF? If the list is infinite (which it appears that it is), you’re wasting everybody’s time in participating in this thread. To be agnostic at this point is not being objective; it’s being deliberately obtuse.
He also says he “was barely conscious” and “the last thing he remembers” so there is certainly the implication that he was getting thrashed, but the rest of the evidence seems to dispute both of these.
There’s no reason to suspect Martin knew Zimmerman was armed until too late.
Why not? I have heard tapes of cops yelling for help.
Maybe Zimmerman didn’t think he was going to be attacked. You likely don’t; know that “brandishing a firearm” is a crime in many areas.
Wearing a red jacket and dark t-shirt.
I have seen bodies where there was almost no blood, even tho the cause of death was GSW. It all depends. How many DB’s have you seen up close? Not counting TV.
Grainy, and some have seen injuries. Personally I think the video doesn’t look good for Zimmerman, however.
I had multiple stitches, no dressing.
We have debunked this so many times it really appears you are not paying attention.
you with the face: yes or no. Do you still believe the cops would have had to put it in their report if Zimmerman had refused medical attention?
If yes, please answer the follow-on question of why, since at least two lawyers whose practice included review of police reports where a suspect refuses medical attention have said otherwise and the Florida law regarding the duty of the medical provider, NOT police, to handle such refusals has been posted.
Certainly, if you exclude the made up part, but that wasn’t what I responding to. You said:
Post #2533
I sure you can find someone on the web somewhere that said that, but Zimmerman didn’t say that based on the people that had assess to his police statement. Trying to impeach his testimony based on things he didn’t say is bad and happening all over the place.
Based on what? The fact that he could walk in a straight line 35 minutes later? I’ve actually lost consciousness and was up and walking a few minutes later (bad flu and I passed out on the sidewalk.) It you might recall, Zimmerman pauses and leans against the wall until the police indicate they are ready to move. He just spent 15 minutes riding in a police car and is apparently still not 100%
Back when I was playing football in junior high, you could get knocked unconscious and all you would get is a dose of smelling salts and if your eyes could follow their finger they would send you back in.
Hey, I’d love for a lawyer to answer my questions.
Is it unusual for the state’s attorney to come to a police station and/or crime scene right after a shooting, after normal work hours? If so, what would trigger this?
And then there was the other question I had. If Serino had gone forward with arresting Zimmerman, what would have happened? If the investigation was going to go forward anyway (as we have been told repeatedly) and it was likely that Zimmerman was going to get off on bail anyway, what would have been the harm in formally bringing charges against him? I ask because he certainly seems to be doing his case harm now with all his family members speaking for him, making his incredible claim even more crazy-sounding. I can’t imagine how arresting him would have made the state’s case against him harder to make.
Please, someone explain it to me. I’m not understanding.
Bring charges for what crime? If they bring charges for the wrong crime, it could make it harder to bring the right charges as facts and evidence come in. What purpose (besides making the mob happy) is gained by arresting him?
Murder charges require a GJ indictment in Florida.
Also as the Police chiefs’ statement sez, the PD could be liable if they arrested Zimmerman after he claimed self-defence. But if a GJ brings an indictment, they can;t be.
So, what purpose would a premature arrest have made?
Why don’t you direct those questions to the detective who wanted to arrest him, DrDeth? He wasn’t responding to a “mob”, so you need to go sit down with that nonsense.
It’s not unheard of, but yes, I would say “unusual” is a very fair word to use.
Where I have heard of similar things happening, it’s because there was some wrinkle in drafting an affidavit for a search warrant, or because there was a question about whether there was probable cause for an arrest. If the prosecutor said to arrest, then they stood behind the arrest and the cops didn’t bear the fallout for lack of PC.
If he arrested Zimmerman and the arrest was later found to be unlawful, any evidence obtained from the arrest’s fruits would be in jeopardy: primarily statements from the accused, but also any evidence discovered as a result of those statements, could be inadmissible. It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility to imagine making the case ultimately unprosecutable.
Sure. And the fact that he apparently thought there was enough evidence is a factor. But that fact that the Chief and the DA there didn’t is another factor.
But I am not pro-Zimmerman, nor is Bricker (from what I have seen). We are pro-truth. I want a non-political body to hear ALL the evidence before making a decision. This was really drummed into my head the two times i sat on a GJ. You hear ALL the evidence before making a decision.
Do you (and also You with the face) agree that it would be best for all the evidence to be heard? Do you two (and others) agree that not all the evidence has been seen (or leaked):rolleyes: to the public? There’s the Medical Examiners report, CSI report, Zimmermans actual statement, the paramedics report, ballistics, witnesse statements under oath, etc. Having sat on a GJ, I KNOW we have heard just a small fraction of what they will hear.
Now, that being said-** if** what has been released and leaked was (hypothetically speaking) all the significant evidence that was available, then yes, right now **I’d vote to return a Indictment vs Zimmerman. **
So, you may think that there is enough evidence right now. But it’s clear we have seen & heard only a small fraction of the evidence. Would you not want all the facts to be known before making a decision?
Right, I agree. And that’s the point I have been making. Those who want Zimmerman to be brought to justice should DEMAND that they take their time and do it right.
If the EMT told them medical attention was needed for a potential concussion, yes the cops would need to have noted that. Not due to legal requirement, but because that’s what a competent cop would do.
I don’t care what lawyers say, to be honest. Too many lawyers mistake common sense and ethical principles with legal ones, which is why society generally distrusts them.
Here’s your problem: you are mistaking (i) what you think the cops should have done with (ii) what competent cops would have done. A competent cop is one who acts in a manner that comports with reasonable standards of cop protocal. It is not one who does everything that you with the face thinks a cop should do.
I just saw a news item on MyFoxOrlando on the 10 o’clock Report.
I want to explain that I don’t normally watch TV news, but they had an ad for the segment right after Fringe.
The have an interview with a neighbor of Zimmerman who say he saw Zimmerman the next day. The neighbor said that Zimmerman face was bruised and swollen and he had a bandage over part of his face.
I’ll try to link to it when Fox posts it online, assuming it isn’t already on youtube.
I’d rather see a medical report and actual close up pictures, but I’ll take what I can get.
“Take what I can get”? Can you clarify? This sounds awfully like you’re willing to take whatever half-ass crumb of evidence that can be scrounged up from between the cushions of an abandoned, urine-soaked sofa, just as long as it allows you to continue your belief that Trayvone had it coming to him. But maybe I’m misreading you.
Color me crazy, but if Zimmerman had a bandage on his face the next day but he didn’t have one immediately after being treated by EMTs as evident in that video, it makes him look even more like a liar trying to play the part of a victim.